Valachi’s The Real Thing – Part 4 of 4

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but they kept on hounding me so that I lost my income and go out and sell junk instead of stopping crime they encourage it.

While I was on West Street at the House of Detention a D.A. from the Bronx County and a couple of detectives came and see me. They wanted to know if I knew anything about Jake LaMatta. They wanted to know if a certain fight had been fixed between Jake and another tighter. I think the other fighter was Fox. Well anyway Jake was involved, I told the D.A. that I did not know anything about it but what got me not to long ago Jake was arrested in Florida for serving some kids whiskey or selling them whiskey because I don't remember if it was a bar or a liquor store that Jake had but what I am trying to say is that Jake admitted that this fight between Jake and Fox was fixed as long as Jake wants to admit about fights being fixed I might as well tell about a few that I know. I remember one time I was at the Shore Haven Pool on Soundview Ave., in the Bronx, it is a private pool and one of the most beautiful pools in New York City. I used to go to this pool very often and so did Jake and his whole family. I knew his wife and his sister in-law and also knew Vickie's mother and father as they all used to come to the Lido Restaurant until Jake barred his wife out of the Lido. She was a beautiful girl and she had no use for Jake because Jake was very cheap at Shorehaven the girls and myself and a few of the boys would play handball most of the time, One

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summer I went to Shore Haven almost every day and Jake's family had a locker for all of that summer. One day Jake came to the pool with Rocky Grazanio and Rocky had just fought Robinson and Rocky only lasted a few rounds and as they were sitting side by side at the pool Jake was asking Rocky why didn't he give the people a better show after all Jake said for 75 thousand dollars he could had lasted a few more rounds and it would had looked better. Rocky answered what did you want me to get killed so Jake said come on he ain't that bad so Rocky answered well I wasn't taking any chances. I laughed to myself and I never bet on another fight after I heard these two guys talk. One thing about Jake when he was going to blow a fight very little people knew anything. Everybody said that Jake was one of the richest fighters in the game. He worked with Tommy Milo from Westchester County and when they put their money down not only no one knew but Tommy Milo bet out of town and none of the money came back to New York. Tommy Milo died a millionaire and he made all his money in gambling. One time one of my horses was running in Rhode Island and Tommy called a friend of mine and he Tommy told my friend that Joe's horse is going to win today. I wonder if Joe knows about it he told my friend and my friend told Tommy that he was ready to call him and make a big bet on the horse but Tommy told him to bet someone else so my friend told Tommy, Gee you take the bet when the horse loses. So Tommy

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answered and said business is business. I used to give hell to my friend I used to tell him not to bet Tommy when my horse runs he won't listen to me and I did not let him know what my horse was going to do and I never had any more trouble and I knew when my horse was going to win or lose as I said before it ain't the owner or trainer that does funny things it is the jockeys and Tommy had a few jockeys on the payroll and another big brain came around and he upset the whole city - he made Tony Bender lose a fortune. He said that Willie Pepp was going to win the fight the first time that Pepp met Sandy Sandler everyone in New York City lost a ton of money and after the fight everyone at least the wise guys thought that Bobby Doyle dumped everyone because Willie Pepp hurt his shoulder and until then Willie was doing fine and I don't remember what round it was but Willie did not come out. They threw the towel in. I only bet two hundred so he did not hurt me. I was afraid from the start. Anyway anything that Bobby Doyle had a hand in I was not interested. The next time Willie Pepp met Sandy Sandley Willie won the fight and I don't know of anyone who had a bet on Willie to begin with. I could had gotten all the fixed fights that they had believe me only about thirty percent come true there is always someone else doing something. They start out with one guy that is supposed to win by the time they get in the ring things change there was a place on Broadway called the House of Champs and some of my

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friends owned the place and I used to go down there everytime that I went to a show and the reason why I used to go there was to find out where there was a good picture. I did not want to be stuck with a stiff and in the House of Champs they knew all the pictures. Almost every fighter went to the House of Champs at one time or another. There is where Frankie Carbo used to hand out. I always used to see him there he is doing twenty-five years in California somewhere. He was jam in out there for some kind of a fix and believe me twenty-five years is a lot of time for any kind of fix they sure had it in for Frankie he would had been better off if he would had stayed in New York. Yes a lot of years.

Well I ain't going to lay down and be hungry so now as I said I am building up the jukebox business, especially when I find out that the income of the jukeboxes has jumped from 20 to 1 to 50 to 1. I guess I must explain this as one would not understand what I'm saying if I don't. By 20 to 1 I mean, say that I want to sell the route and the income on the route is five hundred dollars a week when it comes to figure out how much the route is worth well first we figure the income which is five hundred a week so twenty times five hundred gives me a total of ten thousand dollars. Now that the income of the machines is settled then we got to figure how much the machines are worth, say the machines are worth seven thousand dollars then the whole route is worth 17 thousand dollars. Now the reader can see how

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much the value of the income increased. Now I will figure how much the same route is worth at 50 to 1, at 50 to 1 the same income is worth twenty-five thousand dollars but the value of the machines is the same so we would add twenty-five thousand dollars and seven thousand dollars for the value of the machiness - add it all together and we would get a total of thirty-two thousand dollars. The same business that once was worth 17 thousand dollars is now worth thirty-two thousand dollars. Now one can understand why I went back in the business when I heard that the income jumped from 20 to 1 to 50 to 1 so I was so interested in the jukebox business that I actually enjoyed going around collecting the money.

Now Tony Bender sends for me and he asked me if I am in the jukebox business. I tell him that I am and he tells me that Joe Gallo asked him if I would care to get into the union. I told Tony why not I don't mind and I told Tony that it would like good for Joe if I join the union and Tony told me that they the union would throw locations my way. Well I remember that I sent down at the union office at 42nd Street on Seventh Ave - I sent a seventy-nine dollar check and it covers three months dues and I must admit that the union office shows all the respect in the world for me and they got me a few locations just before they got into trouble. Now I am building up my jukebox business and it is getting better and better each

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week I must tell the truth I steal a good location it was taking in about sixty dollars a week and as the union was still there even though Joe Gallo got into trouble the guy down at the union office calls me on the phone and he told me that he got a beef about this location that I stole and told me that he was going to give the operator my phone number and that I should con the operator as he is got about fifty machines and he is a good union man and we must give him some satisfaction. I told him OK give him my number and I would handle him with silk gloves. The operator happened to meet one of the punks that worked for me and he calls me on the phone and he tells me that the operator is at the location where I have the machine so I tell him to tell the guy to wait for me and that I'll be right down so I go to the location which happened to be right in the Bronx and I meet him. He introduced himself to me and I introduced myself to him and he goes on to tell him that I took his location from him and I told him that I was sorry and if he would forget about it I will promise him that I would not bother any of his locations any more and not only that I will not bother him. I would also protect him if anyone should take any locations away from him. Gee he was very happy and he told me that another operator told him that he would find me a nice guy and if I made a promise to him I would keep it so I shake hands with him and we part very good friends and my working man tells me that he thought I was going to hit the guy. I tell him to forget about hitting anyone - those days are over and I tell him that

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today one gets more with honey than being a wise guy. I had another kid working for me as I bought a small route from him. I paid him twenty-five hundred dollars so it could not be much but I was building up and I need everything that I could get I wanted to get at least thirty machines on the route. I was paying the notes as the money was coming in and I was drawing a hundred dollars a week and I figured that I would be all set when the machines are paid up and that would take about two years and then I could take things easy. I know that I was being tailed all the time. Now I get a call from the lawyer and he tells me that I am a free man that I won the appeal and that the other four guys all lost out. Well I was very happy to hear it and I was more interested now than ever to build up the route so I started to get guys to get me locations for me and I would pay them according to the location if it was a good location I will pay him pretty good. I also had a man that used to supply the restaurants all sort of laundry and they go to the stores two months in advance before they even open up and he would call me and he would tip me off to go to such and such a place and if I got the location I would pay him twenty-five dollars. If I did not get the location I would pay him nothing and I was building a little route in Brooklyn and I was paying for the location all this was in the end of Brooklyn, in fact I had a couple of locations near Coney Island, one location I bought just so that the guy won't lose his business it was a sort of a barber shop and a beauty shop and after I paid the mortgage people so

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that they won't take over his business the guy runs away as he owed everyone. I find out that he had a couple of apartments and he could not keep up with his way of living and I lost all my investment. Well that is the way business is one place I make money and another place I lose money but I liked the business and I did not mind, I must admit that I got stuck some money in Brooklyn and I was starting to sell the location out there and I figured that it was too far and besides I was building up in the Bronx and Manhattan and I was getting some location out in Long Island and I even accepted a location up-State somewhere I don't remember just where because I used to send my workman up there and the reason why I accepted the location was because the machine had a clock in the mechanism and it register every coin that went in the machine, in other words the guy at the country club could not steal and besides he was a friend of mine and I knew he was honest but I held it for about three months and I sold the location because the machine was going out of order too many times. The kids were putting slugs and all that sort of stuff. I was laying in bed and it was about six o'clock in the morning when the door bell rings and my wife answered the door bell and it was the junk agents again and they said that I was under arrest and I asked for what and they said that it was for the same case that I had just beaten. Gee I could not believe it. I guess they the junk agents were really mad at me so they take me in front of a judge down at

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Foley Square and they charge me for a sale on the same case that I beat. They say that they tried me for the conspiracy now they are going to try and convict me on a sale. When the judge heard what it was all about he told the D.A. why don't you cut it out. I know all about this case the judge said that this case was thrown out of court a year ago but the D.A. stuck to his guns and I was held in five thousand dollars bail. I got out on bail right away and at this time I was selling fire crackers again as I said that I was selling them every fourth of July and I had a couple of hundred of dollars on me when I came out one of the agents asked me if he can look at my money. I told him why not so he the agent started looking at all of my bills so I told the agents that he was doing it just so that he would get me on my nerve but I told him that it did not bother me so enjoy yourself and all he was doing was just laughing. Now all the storekeepers were asking for loans so when Ralph Wagner comes over and he asked me to get a little junk for him and he tells me that we can make a lot of money I went out and I spoke to someone and I made Ralph Wagner get what he was looking for and Ralph was bringing me money and I was not touching nothing and I was not talking to anyone. I know that Ralph was doing business with colored guys but I never met any of them so one day I hear that Ralph got arrested and I could not find out why he got arrested finally about a month later Ralph comes around and tells me that he got arrested on a phony rap for junk and the agents wanted him to get me but Ralph claims that he told them

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that he did not know anything about me. When I heard that Ralph had to say I told him to stay away from me for awhile and he agreed and I remain with the kid Solly who was taking care of my machines and I was going around with the kid and I was doing nothing but taking care of my machines. The kid wanted to get married so I let him - by the kid I mean my son as he was raised in a catholic home and I paid about sixteen hundred a year and the kid knew nothing about our life and I am proud that I kept him that way so I wish him all the luck in the world and I can keep my head up as I gave him everything that I did not have. He is got a couple of kids today and he has a fine job so I hope God watches over them as for myself I feel I got a job to do and I am trying very hard so I would wish myself luck that is all that I can say. After about Ralph staying away from me for about eight or nine months he comes around again so I tell him to stay away so he stayed away about a couple of months and he tells me that he met a guy in Brooklyn and the guy can get locations and I went and see the guy and he wanted fifty dollars for every location that he would get for me so I told him that it was OK but I tell the guy that the location must be good or forget about it so I put out a few machines in the Bedford Ave. section and I lasted about four or five months and I gave up the location. I realize that I will not fool around Brooklyn any more. I tried twice and twice I gave up at the same time that I was building up the machines I had someone

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shylocking for me and this kind of money I will not touch no matter what although I wish that I did because if I did I would had no bother with Ralph Wagner any more as later I will explain why I should had not bothered with Ralph Wagner. Well anyway, I was working very hard to try and make a success out of the machines so that I can keep away from everyone and be independent. Once I went home and as I opened the newspapers as I must tell you that if I had to travel ten miles I would never go home with the newspapers as I had my lesson in 1931 when I was walking around with the newspapers under my arms and I almost got killed. Had I opened the newspapers I would had known what it was all about before I went to 14 Street that night. I guess the reader remembers that I wrote it in the early part of this story. Well anyway, this night that I am talking about I read in the papers that Frank Costello had got shot. I was not surprised as I was expecting it as someone had asked me a few weeks before if I wanted to be in on it. I told the guy that if they hit Frank Costello Vito Genovese will become boss and believe me Frank Costello is a much better man than Vito Genovese and the guy told me that I was right because no one likes the idea. Everyone likes Frank the guy told me. Well I asked the guy how did they feel when you told them that we don't want any part of it. He told me that everyone agreed. I could say more but I must protect some of the boys or I will put them in trouble and I don't want to put guys that there nice to me in trouble especially letting Vito Genovese know something that I know that

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he Vito would like to know and I don't want to do him any good no how. They call me that morning and they told me to be downtown that afternoon and when I went downtown I met Tommy Rye and I don't remember how I got up there but I was told to go to a certain Hotel and when I got there I found about twenty-five of the boys in one big room and I was introduced to the guy for the first time as he was a new member. Of course everyone knows by this time that it was the chin well anyway I was not impressed and Tony Bender gave me three or four men and he told me that if there is a comeback I would have charge of Harlem and the Bronx, by having charge of Harlem and the Bronx it meant that if Frank Costello's friends decide to get even I would be the one in charge of Harlem and the Bronx meaning that we would have to go and shoot whoever is willing to get even for the shooting of Frank Costello but as it happened no one was interested in Frank. Only one guy had a hard time coming in and that was Little Augie Piasano and Tony Bender was a personal friend of Little Augie when things like this happened all the Lts must come in and they would be told why Frank got shot and if anyone recognized them he would not show up at all but with Augie it was not a case that he wanted to get even for Frank it was a case that Augie was scared. He was afraid that if he came in he would be killed. Tony Bender had a hard time getting Augie to come in. At ont time Vito Genovese told Tony Bender that it looks as though that he Tony would

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have to wear a black tie because Augie made a couple of appointments with Tony and he did not keep them. Well anyway Augie showed up and everything was settled and the way I got it Vito Genovese was very mad at Chin and Tommy Rye for not going a good job. While this happened one of the boys in the Bronx died, he died a natural death and we were told not to go to the wake but I went because the guy was a personal friend of mine. The guy that died was one of Frank Costello's boys - his name was Big Mike but what I am trying to say is that one of the boys at the wake told me that this kind of stuff is getting disgusting when is this going to stop. I hope, he said, that this is the last one. Gee I wanted to tell him that he was so right that it was not even funny. This fellow was referring to the Costello shooting - what he really meant was isn't it about time that we stop killing ourselves. I was the only one of the boys from downtown that showed up at the wake and I must say that everyone gave me a glad hand. Well I said to myself it is two that Vito got - he had Willie Moore destroyed and now Frank even though Frank did not die but he died in power he was not even a soldier any more he would had died only Albert Anastasia talked for him and got Frank a new life. The order came out that no one is supposed to talk to Frank and if anyone gets caught talking to Frank and if they cannot prove what they were talking about they would die so no one was talking to Frank. The reason why Vito Genovese was mad at

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Tommy Rye and Chin including another one of the boys was because the police were looking for Chin twenty-four hours after it happened because his description was obvious - the Chin weighed about 290 pounds. When the police were looking for Chin the Chin ran away - he went to the country and he stayed there until he lost about 90 pounds and then he gave himself up thinking that the doorman that saw him shoot Frank will not recognize him. When the Chin went to trial for the shooting the doorman did recognize the Chin but Chin's lawyer made it appear that the old man was partly blind so the jury found Chin not guilty so the Chin became a hero but not to the men that understood. I'll say that Frank Costello was the first boss in many, many years that ever pulled through because when it comes to shooting a boss they always send reliable boys. Let's take the case of Willie Moore had he lived after they shot him I'll bet what the war would had still been going on even though they said that Willie was losing his mond because Willie had enough friends that did not know that Willie was going to die if Willie had survived he would had friends but once a man is dead that is a different story. In other words one is worth gold if he is alive and worth nothing once he is dead. That is the story of the Frank Costello shooting. After the shooting of Frank there was some talk going around but not too much it was only a few that knew that Vito Genovese and Albert Anastasia did not get along. Albert was abusing his men because he Albert was

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betting very heavy on the horses and when a man of importance starts betting on horses he cannot think straight all he is got on his mind is horses while the enemy is planning to get him so it makes him a certain loser that is for sure anyone knows that.

It was not long after that Frank Scalice was murdered in the Forham Section of the Bronx. Almost all of the boys knew why Frank Scalice was murdered as I explained that Frank had put in about a dozen and a half of new men and some of these men paid to get into the mob. One may want to know why they pay to get into the mob. Well being there are a lot of members in Harlem and the Bronx it is not a secret to the outsider that this mob existed now they make some money and they want to be recognized so they want to be in the mob and be seen with top men but God forbid if one of these guys are assigned to go out and do some work by work I mean follow the mob instruction but the bosses know better than to use them for anything. It got around that Frank Scalice was killed because he did not give Albert the right account of his dealings. Frank's brother Joe ran away when Frank got killed but in about two months Albert had Joe Scalice come in with a promise that everything will be all right but he was not back long when they got Joe Scalice up at Vincent Squillante's house and there he Joe was murdered and disposed of. Now everyone was upset over the murder of Joe Scalice

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because the other bosses felt that he Albert had told Joe Scalice that everything was all right and then he killed him and Albert put the fellows on the spot that made Joe Scalice come in so it was not long after then when they caught up with Albert Anastasia in the barber shop. Albert's murder was instigated by Vito Genovese. The people that ordered Albert's death would had never done so they had the backing of Vito Genovese. What better excuse could Vito have especially that Albert was abusing almost everyone in his outfit because he Albert was going crazy with the horses. The day that Albert died Vincent Squillante was in the barber shop he had some money a lot of money to give to Albert. Of course Albert was going to race track the day that he died as he was going every day. Albert will bet twenty-five dollars and sometimes Albert would bet two and three horses in one race. Any bettor can tell you that when someone bets two and three horses in one race he is got to go do you want to know where Squillante was when the killer came in - well he threw himself under one of the chairs but he did not need to do so because the underworld carriers out their orders to a T. I'll explain what I mean by to the T - if they told to go out and shoot someone that is the guy they are going to shoot regardless how many guys they find in the barber shop. Remember when they went up at Marangano's office at 46 Street and Park Ave., there was about twenty to twenty-five men in the office and all they hit was Marangano because the order was to hit only Marangano and besides by hitting

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someone else like Vincent Squillante was in the barber shop they may only wound Albert in the confusion of shooting at two guys instead of one and if they would had just hurt Albert and he would had not died for sure those guys had to run out of town because Albert was not a man to make an attempt on his life and fail there would had been plenty of blood shed had he survived. Anyone can tell you even the police. Right after Albert's death everyone was talking about Vincent Squillante because he Vincent Squillante was willing to hand Albert. He Squillante was being questioned as to all the wrong that Albert had done for instance he was killing his men without trial and Vincent Squillante was given the bosses all the information they wanted and when he got through giving information he told Vito if there is anything else I can do call me. I hear that Vito Genovese passed a crack and said that is a punk for you he was nothing but a punk and even though he Squillante was giving plenty of money to Albert but Albert made Squillante look like a king in the eyes of the underworld, Albert made Squillante his God child. It means nothing to the reader what I am saying but it means a lot in the underworld. One time I went to a wedding one of Frank Scalice boys was getting married and when I walked in Frank Scalice was sitting with Vincent Squillante and the whole crew was there. Frank Scalice got up and he greeted me and he walked me away and we went and sit by ourselves and Frank Scalice told me you see Joe what I did. I said yes and he Frank said I told you that I am going to put them in their place as I said Frank had a lot of respect

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for me as he was very close to Marazano in fact very close. In other words we came from the old school. Well I must say that was a lot of respect that he showed and he stayed with me until I left. As soon as Albert died a lot of dirt was coming out about Vincent Squillante. There was talk that he Squillante was fooling around with four or five of his boys' wives. After Albert died one of the wives got nerve enough to talk so she went to one of the boys and told everything even that the wives helped in the killing of Joe Scalice. She went as far as saying that Vincent Squillante had the wives help sweep the blood off the floor so we knew that it was a matter of time that Vincent Squillante will die but he went to jail for a term of 15 to 30 years but he won a new trial and when he came out on bail that was the end of Vincent Squillante. When he was called for trial again he never showed up because he is dead and buried. I have told you that I was a good friend of Johnnie Roberts so one night I took a ride to Brooklyn to see Johnnie right after Albert got killed. I knew that Johnnie Roberts will feel very bad about Albert so I wanted to make sure that if Johnnie had any ideas that he should not so when I saw Johnnie I asked him how did he feel about Albert's death and he told me that I should know how he felt and I told him that I do know that is why I am here and then I told him that the reason why I came is because that I am worried and I asked him if he wanted me to tell him what I am worried about and he said

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I know what you are worried about. Then I could ask you and he said yes. I told him that if he had any intention of getting even with the people that had a hand in Albert's death he should not and I told him that the people that ordered Albert's death are not alone and he Johnnie told me that Vito Genovese and Tony Bender were over to see him and he Vito and Tony told Johnnie that if he Johnnie had any intention of doing anything then he Johnnie would have to contend with Vito Genovese and Tony Bender. Well I said I'm glad to hear that they were over to see you that is just what I was going to tell you. Johnnie I said you know as well as I do that those people would had never done such a thing without the help of Vito Genovese and Johnnie told me until Vito came over he could not understand where those guys got the nerve to do such a thing. Johnnie I said it is an open book I know that Vito is or was after Albert for a couple of years and he Johnnie told me yes you are right, Vito told me and that is why they came over to warn me. I thought it was very nice for them to come over and he Johnnie said that he was glad that Vito and Tony came over but I got a little headache Johnnie. Oh I said then there was some talk he said certainly we would never stand for this if Vito and Tony don't come over. Well I said how do you think they would take it and he Johnnie said they are in the next room the fellows I just introduced to you. Gee Johnnie I said don't tell tjem why I am here and he said don't worry I won't say anything. OK Johnnie I'm glad to hear

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that you know I got up and I told Johnnie that I was going to leave. I shook hands and I left about a week later I read in the papers that Johnnie Roberts got killed. Gee I did not sleep. I started to figure things out and I said to myself I bet that when Johnnie told those guys that he Johnnie was pulling out that he Johnnie did not want a hand in starting trouble, in other words Johnnie did not want to join in on the trouble after Vito and Tony spoke to him as he Johnnie did not want to fight. Vito and Tony After Johnnie died one of the bosses in Johnnie Robert's outfit came over to see me in the Bronx and he asked me if he could talk to me as I knew him a lot of years. I said why not the first thing that he told me was you know Joe I heard that you were over to see Johnnie. I said I was and he said you know Joe I have a lot of respect for you and I said it is better if you speak plain this way we would know what we are talking about. I want to ask you he said why did you go and see Johnnie. I said I went to warn him not to start any trouble and he asked me what did Johnnie say. I told him that Johnnie assured me that he was not going to make any trouble but I must tell you the truth I told him Johnnie told me that there was some talk about he Johnnie and some more boys were going to get even but Johnnie was going to tell them whoever they are that he Johnnie was going to chang his mind. Then you feel that because Johnnie changed his mind they killed him. I said yes. He tapped me on the shoulder and he shook hands with

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me and he left about a week later I read in the papers that they shot up some Club in Brooklyn. I got from the grapevine that the guys that were shot up were the guys that killed Johnnie Roberts, but they grabbed the main guy and they buried him. All I know his first name was Tommy. This ended any comeback from Albert's close friends and Johnnie Roberts' death was avenged.

After the death of Albert Anastasia and the attempt on the life of Frank Costello Vito Genovese called a grand meeting of all the families in the United States at Apalachin, New York. It was around 1957. It was originally supposed to be held in Chicago but someone changed it to Apalachin. The purposes of this meeting was to declare about two hundred useless and unfit button men as no longer to be considered made by the "Cosa Nostra." This would include all the families in which they were already accepted. A score was kept of the number of bad done executions by young button men within the past five years in this category there were about twenty-five which included complete misses, slight wounds and leaving bodies in the street. Another reason for the meeting was to talk about Frank Costello and Albert Anastasia. Another purpose was to celebrate Vito Genovese as the Head Boss of the organization taking over from Frank Costello. All the families of the Cosa Nostra in the United States were represented, There were about 110 members at the Apalachin from all over the world. Only about 60

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were caught. Vito Genovese was furious about the Apalachin raid and the publicity that it brought. He blamed the guy that changed it from Chicago to Apalachin and he Vito Genovese never forgave the guy but the guy don't care. John Montana who attended the meeting at Apalachin and who was voted the man of the year in Buffalo a couple of years before the meeting wanted to step out as lieutenant in one of the families and his request was granted. He claimed that the boys would make him hot. Around this time I was called by the tax people and they told me that the junk agents have been telling him that I had the money buried from the Brinks robbery. I thought that he was kidding me. He said that the agents told him that one of the guys that was suspected in the Brinks robbery called me on the phone in the Lido restaurant. I told him that I knew a lot of guys from Boston and I did not know who were the suspects and I still think that he was kidding me but when my friend was called to go to the grand jury in Boston and when my friend came over and he told me that he had to go to Boston and talk to the grand jury and he my friend wanted to know that if it was alright to tell the jury that he used to go to Boston because he used to go there with me and not for any robbery only to go to the races with me. I told him that it was alright to tell the grand jury that he used to go to Boston with me and if they want to talk to me I'll gladly go to Boston. My friend went and he spoke to the jury and that he mention my name but no one ever called me. When

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they arrested all the guys that were involved in the Brinks robbery as I read it in the newspapers I picked up the phone and I called the tax guy and I tell him that I just read in the newspapers that they arrested all the guys involved in the Brinks robbery and that no one arrested me how come. Yes the guy said I read it to. Now I know that they are phony guys. He told me yes I know I said but they are also dangerous too. I know he said forget about it, I’m with you when I see them he said that he was going to give them a piece of his mind. Here is something that I left out about the Apalachin I want to give the reaction of some of the soldiers of course I mean soldiers that could say a word or two without reaching to the bosses’ ears. Whatever is aaid the soldiers felt that if the soldiers made that kind of a meet and everyone got arrested or most of them got arrested they the soldiers felt that they all would die if they made a mistake like the bosses made then they blame it on the soldiers whenever the city is hot not only that they the bosses got themselves arrested by one man but they were throwing away all kind of money out of their pockets because they did not want to be caught with a lot of money and some of them were throwing away guns and another thing the soldiers were saying instead of only the bosses going to the meet each of the bosses brought along from three to five men which made it more conspicious. If only the bosses would had went there would had been only a handful of men instead of 110 men and a lot of swell cars so who are they kidding no one can question their own mistakes. All in all

- 923 -

most of the bosses stink. There is a few good ones but not many. I'm sure that the soldiers read this what I am saying most of them will agree if not outloud at least to themselves. All I can tell the soldiers is that they better get wise to themselves this life is no good it is for the bosses and after what I am doing the bosses won't want to meet the soldiers any more as they the bosses don't want to take any kind of chance for their money they just can't take it and the Apalachin meeting proved it they showed what kind of dogs they really are. If anyone can say differently I want to hear it bosses.

I had a kid as I said by the name of Solly working on the jukeboxes and Ralph Wagner was a good friend of Solly's and Ralph comes over to my house and as I never talked to him about mob guys he asked me a question that I did not know what to tell him. He asked me that some guy promised him that he would put Ralph in the mob, I looked at him with disgust as I really don't like to talk to the young guys about the mob especially Ralph. He used to get drunk and he used to kick my name around. I told him that he should forget the mob as he had no chance at all and I'll answer him this time but I told him that I don't want him to talk to me about mob guys. I told him that he was a mixbreed and that alone will stop him and he asked me why did the guy tell him such a thing. I told him that he wants to use you not if you go and tell the guy that I told you I would make bad friends with the guy I

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asked him who is the guy and at first he did not want to tell me. I told him to forget about it but then he told me and when he did I said he is a new guy maybe he don't know any better. He looked very disappointed and I laughed at him. He asked me why am I laughing. I told him that I was laughing because he is looking to get killed. He asked me why I told him because you are a drinking bum. He said that if he got in that he would stop. I told him that he can't stop and I don't want to talk about it any more and don't ever speak to me about mob guys. I told him don't you see that I don't bother with anyone. He said yes I notice that you don't. I told him even if I told him he won't understand and we ended the conversation.

At this time Ralph was stealing and I did not know that he was stealing together with Solly my working man until one night they got arrested and he done business with the cops and he came over to me for the money. I gave it to him it amounted to three hundred dollars. He paid it back in a couple of weeks. I was at Joe Pagano Club at one hundred and fifteen street I did not go there too often. When I hear some rough talk going on in front of the Club I hear a guy tell Joe Pagano are you ready to him me now as I heard it I came in front of the club and when I saw that it was Joe DeMarco I was shocked. I walk over to the both of them I notice that Joe DeMarco has his right hand in his pocket so I tell him to get out of the club before I search him and if I find what I think he is got in his pocket I will

- 925 -

use it on him. Joe DeMarco walks out telling me that he did not know that I was in the place. A few days later I was told that a guy wanted to see me at 124 Street and Second Ave., it was an Italian Restaurant. When I got there a friend of mine and Joe DeMarco was in the restaurant and I asked Buster if he had sent for me. He said he had and I asked what was on his mind and he said that he was waiting for Joe DeMarco's uncle so I sat at the table and in a little while Joe DeMarco's uncle walked in the restaurant and he sat at the table and Buster asked me if I knew Joe DeMarco's uncle. I said that I did not and Buster introduced me to him. I don't remember his name so we sat there looking at one another. No one wanted to eat - we all were having coffee. I made it my business to stay in the restaurant until Joe DeMarco and his uncle left. Buster, Joe DeMarco and the uncle were members. Joe DeMarco was a member only about two days but when I chased him out of the club Joe DeMarco was not a member. I understand that he Joe DeMarco was made a member right after I chased him out of the club by me chasing Joe DeMarco out of the club I saved him as I understand that he, Joe DeMarco, intended to hurt Joe Pagano. That night I took the privilege of chasing Joe DeMarco out of the club because I wanted to avoid a serious fight. I was sure that Joe DeMarco had a gun in his pocket. Well anyway I asked Buster what was it all about and he told me that if he Buster told me what it was all about he will get into trouble

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but I promised Buster that under any circumstances I will not betray him so Buster told me that I was supposed to have said the night that I chased him out of the club that if he did not leave I would kill him and his uncle which was not true. So I rush 115 Street and I went and see Joe Pagano and I asked him if he heard me remark such a thing. Joe Pagano swore that I did not say anything like Joe DeMarco went and report so I rush downtown and I go and see Tony Bender and I asked him if he knew anything about it. Tony said he did but I told Tony Bender that it was not true so Tony Bender brought me to see Vito Genovese and I had taken Joe Pagano along with me. When I explained to Vito that I did not say such a thing I put my foot in it because I was not supposed to know anything of what I was supposed to have said. I could not say that Buster had told me because Buster would had gotten in trouble so when Vito asked me what was I excited about he Vito asked me what was I supposed to say but I said I did not know as I said I would had put Buster in trouble so Vito asked Joe Pagano to repeat what I had said in the club that night when Joe Pagano repeated what I had said that I told Joe DeMarco to get out of the club because if I search you I would use whatever I find in your pocket on you that is all that was said. Well Vito called Joe Pagano a liar and he chased Tony Bender and I out of the office and he belittled the both of us in

- 927 -

front of seven or eight of the boys. I thought that Tony Bender was going to cry when we left the office because he felt so bad. A few days later I meet Joe DeMarco and I asked him that is nice what you did and Joe DeMarco swore to me that he did not say it. He Joe DeMarco said that a couple of guys from downtown went up his house and they question him and he swore that they put words in his mouth. I asked him if he knew the guys. He said he had met them when he got in the mob as they belong in the same outfit that he Joe DeMarco belonged to. I asked him if he remembered their names and he said he did and he told me they were guys in the same outfit that I belong but with a different Lt. and their Lt. was very close to Vito as Joe DeMarco being a new member. I had to believe him as the way I figured it Joe won't have the experience to invent such a story so I spoke to some one that was very close to me and he was close to down town. I tell him everything that Joe DeMarco told me and I asked him if there is anything wrong down town and if there is he should let me know so I can put things together. I told him that this don't make sense to me so he decided that he would tell Vito about Joe DeMarco. I explained to this guy that from the looks of things Vito Genovese is trying to get rid of me. He is out to destroy me and I have not done anything that is why I asked you if there is any trouble down town when I say down town I mean Vito's headquarters. Gee I did not do anything and this move is certainly no good so this guy

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asked me if I am sure that I did not say the things that Joe DeMarco said I did if I said what Joe DeMarco said I did I won't be trying to guess. He said that I was right. Well a few days later this guy called me and he told me that he spoke to Vito and that Vito said that he don't believe it. Well I said to myself if Vito is waiting for me to go and see him to hell with him to begin with he is very insulting and I won't dare. I figured that I would stay away and they won't see me unless they call me. I remember that I tried to tell Vito Genovese that they should not put Joe DeMarco in the mob and he asked me why. I told him that Joe DeMarco is got a silverplate in his head and Vito told me to mind my own business. He could be an animal when he wants to be. Well anyway the kid lasted only about eight months and he Vito Genovese had to order his death. I understand that Joe DeMarco's uncle had a hand in it so the great brain Vito Genovese made another mistake. How did he make a mistake by allowing Joe DeMarco to get in the mob when a guy is in the mob he cannot afford to make many mistakes because when guys make beefs on a member they all add up but when a guy is not in the mob he won't make the same mistakes because he is afraid but when he is in the mob a guy like DeMarco gets a swell head and he gets into trouble and that is what happened in Joe DeMarco's case. How did they get Joe DeMarco - well he got arrested for junk and he had thirty-five thousand dollars bail set on him. The mob bailed him out and then they killed him and Vito Genovese had the nerve to tell Pat Pagano

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that he ordered Joe DeMarco's death because of Joe Pagano and Pat Pagano ate it up because he Pat Pagano told me so. It was in Atlanta when he told me I could not say anything as Vito himself was in Atlanta at the time all I could do was walk away on Pat Pagano and I said to myself now I know what a fool I was when I was young look at the oil that this old greed use. Pat and Vito I am still laughing about it. Every day that I was there with Pat Pagano I lost respect for him because he wasn't there long as by the time I got there he was due to go home. I lost more and more respect for them - I mean both of them. Let's take the case of Vincent Squillante here is some of the stories that Vinvent Squillante told Vito Genovese as Vito was the guy that spoke to Squillante - this alone proved that Vito had a hand in it and I also told you that Vito and Tony Bender went to see Johnnie Roberts to tell him not to start anything it all talks for itself. This was none of Vito Genovese's business as this was a different family but still he did all the investigating. Squillante told Vito of many many murders that Albert Anastasia had ordered without consulting anyone. He told of the old couple that testified against Albert when Albert went to trial for his income tax case. The old man was a plumber and he hurt Albert at the trial and Albert got a year. Albert ordered their death. I don't remember where it happened but it was out of New York that they took the old couple out of their house and they were buried somewhere but the police found a little blood in the old couple's house and because the police found

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a little blood in the house. Albert ordered the death of the guys that destroyed the old couple. I let Willie Sutton know who ordered the death of the kid that put the finger on him because I'm sure that Willie Sutton knows nothing about it. Albert has been in the death house at Sing Sing Prison for murder and someone put the finger on Albert but he won a new trial and by the time he want to trial a second time all the witnesses were destroyed and Albert was set free but hated all informers ever since it was Albert who ordered the kid's death because they were putting the kid on T.V. too much and Albert ordered it on his own. No one knew about this, it came out after Albert died. No one dare say anything while Albert was alive. One guy passed a crack that if he has anything to say about Albert he would wait seven years because he wants to make sure that Albert is dead before he dare say anything about Albert. I'm telling the readers this story because I know it is true as I will not dare write it. After the kid was killed the killer himself was murdered. They never found his body. The reason why he was murdered was because of the gun he was told to make sure they the police would not find the gun because the gun was one of the guns that were stolen on one of the docks. I receive a phone call from Tommy Rye and we make an appointment in the Bronx somewhere. When I meet him he tells me that Vito Genovese was arrested. Gee I said I did not hear anything. I remember reading something but I must had been too drunk to remember because sometimes I went out and God

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knows where I wind up but anyway Tommy told me that we must look for a Spanish fellow. I asked him for what and he told me that it is the guy that had Vito arrested so I asked for his name and he said that he did not know his name. How are we going to find him I asked. I don't know he said. Well we looked at one another. Well Tommy said keep your ears opened and if you hear anything give me a ring. OK I said and we broke it up. When I left and I got in the car and as I was driving I said to myself when it comes that it hits home they want one to go out and break his neck for them. Well I was not going to look any where. When I was arrested no one shed a tear for me so I ain't going to shed any tears for anyone either. I forgot it.

About two months ago I read in the papers that a guy got out of jail and his name was Workman not that I know him but something dawned on me I read that he Workman done a lot of time and he done the time for the killing of Dutch Schultz back in 1935, and the guy that sent Workman to jail was Abe Reles, the same guy that was thrown out the window when he was about to testify against Albert and Vito Genovese even though Abe Reles was in the police's hands and he was in a pen house somewhere in Brooklyn. He Abe wound up dying but when Workman went to trial nothing happened and I am sure that Workman did not kill the Dutchman on his own because we all had the order to get Dutch Schultz at

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that time and when Workman made a statement that he did not want to know any one when he was released I understood just what he meant. I suppose he had in his mind that no one done anything about it when Abe sent him to jail but when it come time for Abe Reles to send the bosses to jail well he never got the chance to send the bosses to jail they certainly took care of Abe Reles. What I am trying to point out to the soldiers is that they the soldiers should get wise to themselves as they are nobodys. I'm sure that I made myself clear. Well I guess I said enough to make the soldiers see the light. I feel that if it does not do any good now but I'm sure that as the years go by they would smarten up as time marches on. I am doing my share - the rest is up to them. I can't do anymore than what I'm doing.

Around this time I get notice from the lawyer that my case was thrown out of court without me being there. Well I was happy but not too happy because I figured that as long as they had something hanging over my head they won't bother me. Well I was taking care of my machines and I had about eight or nine games out on the route and believe me I was enjoying taking care of the route because I used to get a kick out of the collections. The kid that I had with me was very stupid. He was pennywise, dollar fool. I had to watch him very closely there was a location in the Bronx that had run down to nothing. I hardly used to go

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there because it was out of the way when I saw the collection go down very low I figured I'll go and see what it is all about. When I got there the owner of the bar told me that Solly, my workman, had not changed a record there in the last couple of months. Well I blew my top but it won't do any good he just could not see himself buying new records. Well I went down town and we bought about ten new records for this bar. The next week the collection jumped up to about thirty-five dollars. So I put some more new records in the machine and the following week it jumped up to about fifty dollars. So I tell the kid see what I mean and he tells me that he still can't see it. Well I just gave him a push and I told him that if he don't cut it out I'll have to get rid of him. He said OK it is your money. Look I said can't I convince you the record cost 62 cents a record after you keep changing and when you got the machine rolling all you got to do is put three or four new records in the machine every week. Now is that too hard to understand. He said OK I'll do it.

While I am taking care of the machines I get a proposition - some kid that once worked for me has a single number action. I will explain what a single number action business is. I suppose most of the readers heard of the numbers business. One plays a number - say like putting fifty cents on a number like 437. Most of the players have dream books and when they have a dream they look up whatever they were dreaming about and the book tell them what number to play on the strength of the dream or if one sees an accident they take the license plate

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numbers and they gamble and play the license plate number. And one would be surprised to know how many times they hit the number from the dreams that they had. In fact they ain't supposed to tell anyone that they have dreamed about a number until the number comes out they play the number that they dreamed of for a year sometimes. The same way it goes when one sees an accident. This is the number play that is call the mutual numbers. The payoff comes from the mutual machines from major race tracks. There is always a race track running whether it is in the East or South it don't make any difference because the banks operate where ever they are running. One time the Daily Mirror of New York City used to tell the people what number to play on certain days until the Mayor of the City of New York City stopped it and they even stopped the newspapers from printing the winning number and the player had to figure their own numbers by adding the mutual payoff from the race track and if one figured that they hit the numbers to make sure that they figured the right number they would call another player and they would ask what number came out and if the number that the player figured is right then the first player would yell I hit, I hit. It is such a thrill to hit that the player starts to call everyone that they know and yell on the phone that she or he hit the number and they would explain how they had a dream and that is how they got the winning number and they would explain how long it took for the number to come out.

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Sometimes it came out the same day that they had the dream. Now as I was saying one would hit for fifty cents the bank would pay out three hundred dollars on a fifty cent hit. The hit goes to the controller and the controller gives the hit to the runner and the runner pays off the player but he takes his commission out first which is fifty dollars on a fifty cent hit and the player receives two hundred and fifty dollars. It it is a dollar hit then the runner takes a hundred dollars for his commission and the player receives five hundred dollars. Now I would explain the single action number business. The first, second and third race makes the first number by adding what the first race paid on the first, second and third horse. They take the total of the first race and then add it with the second race and do the samething with the third race and then add all three races and the first of the winning number is known - for instance the total of the three races is 15(9).60 - nine would be the first number. A player will play say 9. Well he wins and gets seven to one for his money that is what the odds are in the single action number business. Now the same player that won on the 9 bets on the second number as there is a half hour between races and the fourth and the fifth race makes the second number. It takes an hour before the second number is known say it is an O then the first two numbers are 90. Now the sixth and seventh races make the last number and say it is another 0 then the winning number is 900.

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Now the guy who is booking the single action tries to fill in the whole ten numbers. The ten numbers consist of from 0 to 9 - let's say that the bookmaker had all the numbers full and let's say that the lowest that he has on one number is one hundred dollars - well he would book in a smart way by giving everything over a hundred to another bookie - that leaves him with a hundred dollars on the whole ten numbers. He would be a sure winner because having a hundred dollars on all of the ten numbers he pays out 7 to 1 having the whole ten numbers played he would take in a thousand dollars and he pays out eight hundred because the winner gets 7 to 1 and his money back so it makes it eight hundred dollars to pay off the bookie wins two hundred dollars and with no gamble now two hundred dollars a day for six days brings in 12 hundred dollars a week and without gambling pretty good pay I'll say. Now the guy that brought me this deal he had about eight hundred dollars a day and he told me why don't I get together with another guy and this guy happened to be a friend of mine and he is a mob guy and he also had about six or seven hundred dollars a day business he belonged to another outfit but it was an outfit that I used to be with in 1930 so because he was with these people I got together with him and I went and told Tony Bender of my new business and the guy that I got together, this was a new order that Vito had put into effect, they told us that this new order would avoid a lot of trouble but us old timers thought otherwise we

- 937 -

figured that this order was put into affect so that they the bosses would know everything that the soldiers are doing, Well the guy that I got together with made an agreement that we would pay the runners which were two one hundred and twenty-five dollars a week and no more is to be added to the payroll of course we had to pay some ice, the ice means the police — it did not amount to much the ice is pretty cheap on single action business. The police know the number business better than we do. After two weeks my partner came over and he wanted to put another guy on the payroll so I told him that if he puts another guy on the payroll I would put one also so he goes and see Tony Bender and Tony Bender told him that he Tony would talk to me. When the guy came and he told me that Tony Bender Oked it for him to put the other guy on the payroll I told Vito as Vito was his name. I said no good and I told him that Tony Bender had nothing to do with the business. I told him that to hold everything as I was going down to see Tony Bender, When I saw Tony and I explained to him what it was all about Tony did not know what to say. Now Tony asked me to do him a favor and I should not make him look bad. I told Tony if I agree to another guy on the payroll this guy would come around again and he would be looking to put someone else on the payroll. I tell Tony I can't understand why the guy has to come to him when he is got his own Lt. to go to, The other guy that was sitting on the table told Tony that I was right that he Tony should not butt in my business as to begin with Tony did not know what it was all about, Now Tony tells

- 938 -

me to do what I want so I go back up in the Bronx and I tell Vito and I ain't going to put the other guy on the payroll so Vito runs to his own Lt. and I get a call from Tony that I should be downtown as there is an appointment made with Vito's Lt. and that I should be at Tommy's bar on Thompson Street at a certain time at about six o'clock in the evening. So I go downtown and I am sitting with Tony Bender when Vito's Lt. walks in the bar and restaurant and he tells Tony that he should excuse me as he does not want to talk in my presence. At first I was insulted but as the bar was only about six feet away and Vito's Lt. was talking out loud I hear everything. I heard Vito's Lt. say to Tony Bender who the hell are you putting your two cents in my business. I know Joe for thirty-five years and I told Vito my man that Joe is right that if Vito puts one more guy on the payroll Joe has a right to put one on also. He comes to you and you tell Vito that you are going to talk to Joe all you did was to make trouble for Joe and Vito. From now on don't ever butt in my affairs and get wise to yourself and let up on Joe he is a good guy and everyone knows that you treat him like a dog. Gee I was so proud of this guy that I could had went over and kiss him. Now I'll tell you who he was but I won't say his name and I have a lot of respect for him. He is a Lt. in the old outfit that I used to be with in 1930 or better that I'll tell you it is the old Maranzano crew. Maranzano is the man that used to be my boss and as I told you in the beginning of this story he was killed in the office building at 46 Stteet on

- 939 -

Park Ave. Now that night I left and I went home but the guy that I was close to was Vinnie and he is the guy that was trying to put Tony Bender and I together. He comes and sees me and he asked me for a favor. I tell him that I know the favor that he wants. I tell him that I already did it so he asked me if I quit. Sure I quit I told him but I just want you to see what Tony does if Vito Genovese hears of this, Tony is in trouble. So Vinnie said that is why I'm asking you to quit. Yes I said in the meantime I am leaving a nice business because Tony makes boo boos. Yes I understand. Please leave me alone noq after Vinnie sees Tony he Vinnie came and saw me again and he tells me that Tony Bender was shocked that I quit and he Vinnie told Tony that he Tony does not want to understand that Joe is a good fellow. I tell Vinnie you are young and you don't understand. Tony listens to Bobby Doyle. I understand the business made a lot of money. How did I find out. Well the runner of mine that I left to Vito told me. Now I lose a chance here and a chance there it was hard on me not alone losing a chance to make a dollar but I made bad friends too. So I said to Vinnie I'll take care of my machines and I won't bother with anyone and that is what I was doing. I asked Tony if he would get me a couple of locations and he would say that if he sent me any where for location the police will think that he had jukeboxes so he edged me off in that style.

Now comes the early part of 1959. One night I get a phone call at about

- 940 -

eitht o'clock at night. I was lucky to be home. I was told that I was going to be arrested so I jump in the car and as I was starting my car I see the agents just about to pull up in front of my house. I step on the gas and I drove like a wild man and I went as fast as 90 miles an hour on the thoroughway and I lost the agents and I went into hiding and as I was hiding I did not trust the kid that was taking care of the jukeboxes so I turn the keys over to Joe Pagano and he used to come and see me in the apartment where I was hiding. I was right in the Bronx and I would ask him how were the machines doing - was he making the payment as I had about ten months to go before the machines would be paid up. Well for about six months I did not contact my family. When I did I found out that my family was putting a couple of hundred dollars towards the payment of the machines. In other words Joe Pagano was taking about two hundred dollars a week for himself and his buddy that was taking care of the machines. Well when I found out I sent for Joie and I took the keys off him and I gave them back to the kid Solly. Well even though Solly was no bargain at least my family was not pulling out any money out of their pocket to pay for the notes on the machines. I had to chase after the guy that was shylocking for me to get some money out of him. I had my hands full. I never thought that Joe Pagano would had done such a thing knowing that I was in trouble with the law. After four or five months I left the apartment in the Bronx

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and I went to a place in Windale, New York, but it was too expensive there and after a couple of months I bought a trailer and I went to Connecticut and the kid that was taking care of the machines used to come and see me a couple of times a month. I had met a girl in Connecticut and she had a car and as I had no car as I figured that a car will get me caught. Every morning I used to walk six miles I did it all the time that I was there and the girl used to come about twice a week and I used to cook for her as she liked Italian cooking as I am a good cook even if I have to say it myself. After all I did have four or five restaurants and besides I learned how to cook back in the days when I was in Sing Sing Prison as in Sing Sing Prison we were allowed to cook our own food and all the time that I was in Sing Sing I never ate any of the food that the state gave us. Now everytime I went out with this girl we would go to a movie and then go to eat. Once I went to New York. Now I told this girl that I had wife trouble that is why I was living alone. I would tell her but she used to bother me about going to the Copacabana in New York but I would give her some kind of an excuse and then she would ask me to take her to the race track and again I would have to find excuses. It got so that she got wise that something was wrong. I finally told her that I was wanted because of the government wanting to deport me. I had to tell her something was wrong, so this way she won't bother me any more. Everytime my man that

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took care of the machines of course I told you that his name was Solly and he was a friend of Ralph Wagner - Solly told me that Ralph Wagner was also arrested in the same case that I was on the run and he Solly is telling me that Raply Wagner is dying to come and see me but I tell Solly not to tell Ralph or bring him over to see me because I don't trust him but he kept on bothering me so much that after a couple of months I told him to bring Ralph Wagner over to see me and when Ralph Wagner does come over to see me the kid Solly changed his mind and he tells me that he Solly himself does not trust Ralph Wagner so I thought that Solly did the right thing. Now I meet a girl from Wingdale, New York the previous place that I was before I bought the trailer and she is also got a car and being she was a live wire - by that I mean she was a little wild - so I started to see her a lot and we used to go out almost every night. I spend a few dollars with her but she brought me to her friends house and they were very poor and I used to buy food for them and plenty of beers. The girl that I was fooling around with in Conn. used to come around twice a week so I was lonely being alone most of the time. She was in the trailer with me when it came on the radio that Little Augie and the girl that he was with got killed. I must had shown something on my face because the girl asked me if I knew or rather she told me gee don't tell me that you know people like that and she went on to say they must be animals for killing the girl. I really agreed with

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her but I told her that I did not know them but I was really mad because in the old days they did not do things in that style. Dogs like that I said to myself have luck. I hope the readers would understand me as I am trying to say that because Augie had a girl with him that day they the killer could had passed it up and take care of the guy some other time. Any knowing the guy that called Augie on the phone which I would tell you later and I would also tell you how I found out I know the one that called Augie on the phone all of my life and he has been a dog all of his life. I was real sorry for the girl because I knew her. Now the girl in Conn. was kind of sore at me because I was fooling around with the other girl. I could not help it that she found out because they met in the trailer one night so I introduce one to the other. As I said the girl from Wingdale used to take me all over sometimes we would leave in the morning and we would be together twenty hours. She used to take me to the stock car races and she used to like to play baseball - the kind of baseball and I am talking about is where one puts twenty-five cents in the machine and he receives about eight or nine balls that is the machine pictures to you one can bat at the fast ball or the slow balls whichever he likes. Sometimes we spent an hour playing baseball. She was surprised to see me beat her because she was young and sort of a tomboy but very pretty one night she told me that we had to go to a friend of her's house which was a boy friend of hers. I went along and they had a baseball game on T.V. there were a couple of brothers in

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the family and I noticed one of the brothers came in and I notice a gun and holster around his belt. I did not say anything because I did not want her to understand that a State Trooper in my company would bother me after we stayed there a couple of hours we all went to a dinner and we all had coffee and they were playing the jukebox and they were dancing but the trooper and I remained at the table and we were talking and I don't remember where I told him that I came from but I'm sure that I did not say that I came from New York. I might had said Jersey because I know something about Jersey. I'm not going to say that 1 come from somewhere that I don't know anything about but I do want to say that it is a funny feeling knowing that I was wanted and here I am out with a State Trooper. Well everything turned out allright and they told me to come around sometime. One thing I notice the people out of New York are very friendly. Sometimes when I went out in the mornings I would get a hello from a girl I would be caught off balance because us New Yorkers are not friendly at all. Even if I have to say it because it is the truth even the police are more friendly out of town. When a policeman out of town pulls you over for anything he is very polite. When they pull one over in New York the policeman would say hey you pull over there and he would come over and ask youtor your license. He would say give me your license but in a rough tone. Another night this girl, I would call her Ruth, asked me to go dancing and we had an agreement

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that she would dance with whom she felt like. She is dancing and I am at the bar drinking and all of a sudden I hear a hard smack - I thought the guy hit her instead I see the guy on the floor and he was holding his face and he was saying what is this who am I dancing with? So I asked her what happened and she said that she would tell me later when it cooled off. She told me that the guy was trying to dance her upstairs. I told her that I must tell her the truth I told her that she dances too close when she dances. I told her that I was going to tell her a couple of times but I was afraid that she would get insulted. First of all I said you put your face too close and your face is red hot when you dance I understand but these guys when a girl dances close they think wrong they don't understand that you are enjoying the dance. She looked at me and she said you are right but that is the way I dance. I just have to watch them that’s all. Well I realize that she did really enjoy dancing so I did not say anything else and she warned me whenever she did anything like she did I should never come over don't ever get involved she said. Well I thought she was right after all she knew what she was doing expecially the guy wanted to dance her upstairs. Ruth knew me as Charlie. One day I was supposed to meet her at a bar and restaurant. One of the kids that was in her crowd drove me to Wingdale with his Ford as I was waiting for her a phone call comes in for me as we went there so often. The woman who owned the place came and told me that there was a

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phone call for me it was the cops they wanted to know if I knew Ruth I said that I did and they asked me what kind of a car she owned. I told them a DeSoto and they thanked me and then she got on the phone she said I should wait for her so I wait and as she was about thirty miles away I ordered something to eat. Well she came in and she told me that she left her ownership card home at the friend's house and there was no one home so the cops asked her who can they call that can verify that she owns the car, that's how they called you. She knew that I was there waiting for her. Well it is OK but I said to myself I'm sure I'm going to get pinched with this girl because only a few days before this happened she drove to my place and showed me new hubcaps for her car. I did not want to question her but I thought that her or some of her friends stole the hub caps as they were very fancy. Well anyway she lived in Pennsylvanie. She was only in Wingdale for a couple of months as her place where she worked was closed for the summer. I don't know if she was telling me the truth and I did not care but one night one of her friends slept in my trailer and he told me that if I swear to him that I would keep my mouth shut he would tell me something the kid told me that I was right in questioning Ruth about the hub caps because two of the kids got caught while stealing the hub caps as they are stealing them all the time. They sell them. Gee I asked him how much are the worth and he told me twenty dollars and how much

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do they sell them for I asked. He said ten dollars. He said in a few days he is going home and when I leave he said then you can tell her tell her to stay away from those guys that you see her with or you don't bother with her anymore because I know she would listen to you because she is worried that you may find out. Oh God I said to myself then I asked the kid if she is really from Penn. He said yes she is, she comes here every year and so do I and the rest of the guys that you met. I asked him if she is a good girl and he said she is. They are just wild. You see the way she knocked that guy down that night. Yes I said I certainly did she could use her hands. He said well this I never sat that is why I am writing it it was an experience for me that I would never forget. Well, well. I said to myself these kids should know who I am they would really flip. I was thinking about these kids. I wondered how they felt when they saw me on T.V. I can't help but to get them a thought after they all went home and I was left only with the girl in Conn. and it was getting cold. I was thinking of telling the trailer camp boss that I was going to go home for the winter but I was waiting until it got a little more cold. Solly came over and again Ralph Wagner wants to see me so I told him to tell Ralph to call me. Solly and I went and got the phone number of a pay booth and you tell Ralph that I would wait for his phone call at 11 o'clock sharp Friday night. So at 11 oclock sharp Friday night I went to the booth and I was waiting for Ralph to call me instead of the call the agents came. Now before I tell you

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about the agents I want to talk about something important after they killed Joe DeMarco about four or five soldiers got together and we promised ourselves that if one of us gets hit we would get together and fight the whold mob. We figured that with the law that the big brain put into effect about no one is supposed to be fooling around with junk and as I proved to you readers that if one did fool around with junk and he gave a share to Vito Genovese nothing would be said. We figured that the law was made for their own profit. After all as much as bad as Joe DeMarco was he was to be pitied, not killed, because everyone knew that he had a plate in his head. They committed a sin when they put him in the mob. Anyone in the neighborhood can tell you what I am telling you. Now while I was on the lam I must explain what lam is because since I am dealing with the people I understand they don't understand slang words - lam means running away from the police. I was in touch with some of the boys and told them to be on the lookout for any boss that is making any trouble because I am on the lam. One of them told me don't worry if I hear anything I'll be with you because we were fed up getting arrested for nothing. Then we get a mob trial. We did not mind being arrested but we did mine having been tried again by the mob. Joe Pagano is alive today and he can tell the mob as what I am about to say if I'm telling the truth he came and see me once while I was on the lam and he told me that Tony Bender and Vito Genovese were

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asking for me and I asked Joe Pagano did they ask anything about why I am on the lam. He said no. Does any of them want to see me I asked? He said noone said anything. Well in case any of them want to see me maybe they want to know if I am guilty let me know. Joe asked me a smart question. He asked me if one of them wants to see you should he Joe Pagano come along. I said for him the best thing to do is made an appointment somewhere in Jersey and I will advise him to leave when I get there he asked me if I was coming there with a gun. I told him the best thing for him to do is not be there. Don't forget I told him I am asking you to go and see the both of them and I want to know if any of them wants to see me and I would explain to any of them why I am on the lam. Joe looked at me and he said that he would go and see them and that he would come back with an answer. OK I said so Joe asked me if I was disgusted I said that I was and he shook his head. He came back a few weeks later and he Joe told me that he saw the both of them and they sent their best regards and that I should be careful and they both said that they understand. At this time Vito Genovese was himself out on bail for the junk rap that he is doing time right now. Again I asked did they as you if I needed any money. He said they only asked how is he so I looked at Joie and he looked at me and I asked him how were the machines making out as I said I had given the keys of my machines to Joie and as I was not calling home I had to take Joie's word until the kid

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Solly came over and told me what was going on. Now I go back to the trailer camp when the agents came. Again I'll say it - Ralph Wagner gave me away. The agents made a mistake when they asked me how come I did not walk all week. I asked them how come you know that I have been walking the reason why I did not walk all week was because the girl from Conn. had told me that she saw a car riding very slowly and it had two guys in it and it had New York license plates so I was careful. When I asked the agents how come they knew that I was walking they did not say anything but looked at one another so it had to be someone that knew that I was walking. I started to think the kid Solly had been coming for months and Walph Wagner was there only once. Well one of the agents had the reputation of hitting when he made an arrest so I told both of them before we go any further I want to tell both of you if anyone of you would raise a hand on me I won't care how it would end up there would be blood all over this trailer. I know I would get the worse of it but I don't care. Well Meddelsome answered me and he said Joe I have been hitting but I hit kids but I don't hit guys like you and besides we have not found anything on you so why should I hit you. OK I said now we understand one another and then Middlesome told me that if I kept away from the phone I would had lasted a thousand years. I answered and said you mean that if I did not make an appointment with some guy at 11 o'clock and instead of him calling me you guys came.

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Well I said one must learn but none of them answered me. Now they asked me what am I doing with the steaks in the ice box so I told them if they were hungry that I would cook them and if you think that I expect someone in here then you are wasting your time. Ok they said we go and as we were riding one of them said you see we did not treat you bad we did not bother your machines. I told them to cut it out that if I had put two dollars on the down payment you would had seized all of my machines and Middlesome told the other guy, Gee all these guys that done time in Sing Sing are smart - it meant that I had not put any money down payment on the machines because I knew that if I did the agents would seize them in time that is what Middlesome meant when he said that all the guys that done time in Sing Sing are pretty smart - which is true. I explained it in the early part of this story that if anyone with a half a brain would come out of Sing Sing very worldlywise. Sing Sing gives one an education that I cannot explain somehow after someone has done time in Sing Sing he seemed to read a person's mind. I don't know what it does but at least if one done time in Sing Sing in my time I don't know what it does today. After all, only fools go to jail. In times like today because the jobs pay enough today for anyone to live half way decent but not in my time it was hard in the 1920's believe me it was, especially if one came from my neighborhood and if he came from a poor family the way I did. Now one may not believe what I am

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saying but its true.

They, the agents, took me to Hartford, Conn. I stayed there over night and I was taken to New York in Brooklyn and when I went in front of the judge he the judge asked me if I knew that they were asking for me. I told him that I went on a trip with a trailer and I found out only two weeks ago that I was wanted and when I did find out I made a phone call to find out why I was being hunted and by the time I found out I got arrested through making the phone call. The judge said twenty-five thousand dollars bail. The bondsman was already in court as I had called from Conn. the day before I was released on bail and when I went to work on the machines the route was taking in about two hundred and fifty dollars a week and in two weeks I had it to five hundred dollars a week. In the meanwhile I had called the girl in Conn. and I told her that she can take the trailer and keep it or sell it back to the guy that I bought it from in Wingdale it was about thirty-five miles from where the trailer was. I don't want to say the name of the trailer camp as I like to protect business men after all he did not know who I was. I told the girl that I would call her back and she should let me know if the man would give her the trailer. I had a hunch that the man at the trailer camp would like to keep the trailer for himself. He was a nice man but the girl was very nice to me so I rather see her get it. I only paid four hundred and fifty dollars for the trailer after all I knew that I won't have it long, sooner or later I knew I'll either get arrested

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or I was going to go away somewhere. I could not live in the trailer in the winter time. There was an oil burner in the trailer when I bought it. I won't live in a trailer or any house with an oil burner because I have heard too many stories about oil burners so I ordered a gas heater. It cost me about one hundred and sixty-five dollars and I bought a T.V. and that cost me two hundred dollars and I bought pots and everything for the kitchen. If anyone thinks that all this stuff doesn't cost much. Well let them go out and buy and see what it would cost. When I did call the girl again she told me that the man at the trailer camp would not give her the trailer unless I go there and sign it over to her so I had to go out there. It was about ninety miles from New York. I took another girl along with me so that I will have some company along the way. I got there about eight o'clock in the evening and when I got to the camp I told the man that I was sorry to cause him all that embarrassment because I knew that it was in the papers especially the way the narcotic agents write up a guy everyone that they arrest are the biggest. The papers in Conn. had me held for fifty thousand dollars bail. The girl refused to take the T.V. she thought that I should take it home as I said she was a fine girl and there was nothing between us other than I helped her with some difficulties. After we left the trailer camp we went to her house and we stayed there until one o'clock in the morning. I like to travel at night. When I

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got to New York I started to take care of my machines again and one day I was riding with the kid Solly the kid that was working for me on the machines. I tell the kid that Ralph was a jinks he comes there once and I get arrested. I don't know the kid said one night Ralph was drinking with the agents we were in a joint and the agents came in. I told Ralph let's go but he has to stay there and get drunk. Oh I said well that is the way it is. I did not want the kid to know what I was driving at as I said this kid was not so bright. I had not seen Ralph for about two or three weeks when I did see him I did not mention that he was supposed to have called me. I was building up the route as much as I could because I had in mind to sell it and the more it would bring the more I would get when I sell. I was called to court for a pleading and I pleaded not guilty and one of the agents was there - his name was Frank - and he was talking to me and he was talking like a regular guy. He was saying that he is out to get whatever he can out of this job that he is got and for a moment I was believing him. He said that he would call me some day. I did not answer that day I saw Ralph and Ralph asked me what were we going to do. I told him that I did not know yet I was making myself busy with the machines and this wasn't far away from Christmas. I Think it was around November and it was around this time that I met Tony Bender and he asked me about this guy. I asked why did he ask me and Tony told me that this was the

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guy that called up Little Augie the night he was killed. Tony was with Little Augie the night that Augie was in Marino Restaurant on Madison Ave. in the Fifties. Tony said that Augie was sitting in the restaurant with Tony when he Augie got a phone call and he Augie told Tony that he had to go and meet this Frank in Brooklyn or Long Island. I don't remember for sure. Augie left Marino Restaurant with a girl. He Augie was sitting with this girl of course. Tony was there and he Augie took the girl along with him when he left the restaurant that night Augie and the girl were killed and Tony felt very bad because I had told you that when Frank Costello was shot Augie was afraid to come in and Tony Bender had a hard job bringing Augie in and at that time Vito Genovese had told Tony that he Tony would have to wear a black tie if Augie does not come in - meaning that Tony was a dear friend of Augie's of course Tony Bender was questioned by the police because they the police found out that Augie was in Marino Restaurant with Tony. The police thought that Tony had a hand in it but all the underworld knew that Augie and Tony were dear friends. In the end of this story I would tell about Vito Genovese and I had a talk about Augie and Tony and I would tell you the reason why Augie was killed. Now I go about my business and take care of my machines. When I get a phone call from Frank the agent and he tells me on the phone that he is around the neighborhood and he would like to talk to me. I said OK I'll meet you. I

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said to myself let me see what he wants. When I saw him he gave me a deal he said that if I would do the way Charlie Lucky did years ago he would help me. Now I'll tell you what Charlie Lucky did years ago so you would understand what I am talking about. Charlie put a trunk full of junk in a certain apartment and had the agents grab it and the agents did not arrest anyone just that they caught a trunk full of junk and Charlie Lucky got a break when this guy gave me the deal at first I thought that he meant it but I started to get worried. I said to myself that this guy is trying to make a name for himself. Ralph and I had a talk and I told him that I am trying to do something but I don't trust him so we better prepare to take it on the lam. I said to Ralph I am going to see the lawyer and send him to Judge Abruzzo and see what kind of a deal we can get if we would plead guilty. The lawyer told me it is best that we wait until after Christmas. I went and see some people in Brooklyn and they told me that the judge is a good man. He likes to play and he the judge likes his women and the judge is always down town he goes in those joints on Thompson Street. Well I told the guy if something can be done give me a ring. Now Christmas is around and Ralph Wagner gets himself in an auto crash and he gets himself hurt and he goes to a hospital and while Ralph is in the hospital I meet a guy in a friend of mine's joint on Boston Road and this guy's name is Porky and he Porky is with another guy and Porky introduced me to this guy and this guy's name is Solly and Solly tells me that he has connections to get passports

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to Brazil. Gee that is fine I said where can I get you if I need you. I figured that I would play along with the agents and then I would take off on him in the first place I had a good excuse to stall the agents because there wasn't anything around and by not anything around I meant no junk around. The agents know better than the junk dealers if there is something around or not they were trying to rush us to trial and that is why I was stalling the agents. I wanted time to sell my business and get all the money and run to South America. There was nothing else I can do if I decide that this agent is a phony. I had a few months yet and I was stalling him. He was lying and I was stalling so we were even. I wasn't bothering anyone. Frank the agent thought that I was doing business with junk with top names. Whatever I was doing and it was very little I had Ralph Wagner front it for me as the mob had spies going around. They were determined to stop guys. Now Joe Beck can't deny that Vito Genovese once said that he Vito made the best agent when Vito said it Joe Beck looked at me and I looked at him and when Joe and I were along Joe Beck remarked to me did you hear what Vito said, Well I made believe that I did not hear him. I had Joe Beck under suspicion that he was reporting everything that we talk about to Vito. The payoff was that he Joe Beck would do all the talking. Now I know why Vito felt like an agent - here is what I was told what Vito did while in Italy in 1938 as long as he wants to believe what agents say then let him explain

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what an agent told me and this guy was on the arrest. While Vito and another guy were touring Europe Vito made some contacts for junk and he Vito was caught what did Vito do. Well according to this guy Vito gave the tip to the U.S. authorities and a lot of Vito's enemies were arrested on the U.S. side. The stuff was put on a boat in Naples. Answer this one Vito or I forgot you have no one to answer to, my error. So now I am arrested and I am going to do what I see fit. What was wrong with what I was doing as long as I was not hurting anyone no one said anything about Charlie Lucky doing it. This is the first time that I am talking about it. I had a talk with a boss FBI man about this and he told me that he knew all about this scheme. He said that Frank the agent was going to turn me in. I told the FBI guy that I knew and when I ran away I left the agent at the post. The FBI man said that he did not blame me. I'll go back to Ralph Wagner. I could not tell such a dizzy kid what I was doing with Frank but I did tell Ralph that I was doing something and whatever I was doing was for the benefit of both of us. What does Ralph do he goes and tips off the bondsman and tells him that I was going to take off. Ralph thought that I did not know that he was working both ways. One of the boys that knew about what Ralph was doing asked me if Ralph was crazy. Later I would tell you what Ralph did to hurt me in Atlanta. Well we got notice to go to court again and when we go to court we get a postponement and as I am in the court corridor a colored agent asked me if I saw Frank lately. Well that was enough for

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me. I did not say anything to Frank but now I was determined not to do anything with Frank. One day while Ralph was in my house Frank calls me on the phone and he tells me that I am a wise guy. I asked him why and he told me on the phone that Ralph ran away. I told him what are you crazy Ralph is right here. Gee he said I must have gotten a wrong tip but he did say that Ralph is talking about running away in the bars that Ralph goes when I hang up I tell Ralph that the agent got a tip that we are going to take off. I tell Ralph if you are telling anyone that we are going to take off one day we go to court and they would hold us and we would be stuck, so please be careful. He got all excited and I told him that it is an important matter so please be careful. I was not going to take Ralph with me after all I felt that he Ralph turned me in when I got arrested in Conn. and I found out that Ralph is out on bail for two stick-ups. One of his friends told me all about the two stick-ups. He told me on one of the stick-ups he stuck up an old man in a grocery store and that the old man was about seventy years old and after the stick-up he Ralph was walking around at two o'clock in the morning with the gun in his pocket and two radio cops spotted him as he was falling all over the streets and the other stick-up was a building superintendent. He Ralph and two more guys. I asked how did he get caught the guy told me that while the sup and his family had their hands high in the air someone in another apartment spotted the

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hands high in the air and they called the cops and Ralph had an empty gun on him. Well when I saw Ralph I started to kid him. I had known stupid guys I told him but you cop the cake. No wonder I don't see you for weeks of the time how much bail are you out anyway and tell me how did you make bail with all those arrests. He said if I find out who told you I will break his neck. I asked him why don't you want me to know that you are a great crook. Now please don't let me hear that you stuck up a blind man next. He started to talk to himself and I was shaking my head - tell me I asked him again how much bail have you got on your head. He said twenty thousand on one and twenty thousand on another and fifteen on the last one. He meant the one case that he was arrested in my case for the conspiracy that we were out on bail together. In fact we were about seventeen all in one case and no one to testify against me. Only agents. I don't know how many of them. Well Ralph got mad and I did not see him for about another six or seven weeks. At this time all I was interested in was the jukebox route. I found a guy who had someone that was looking for a jukebox route and the guy brought the fellow to me so the fellow want to send his man around for a month. I told him I can't waste any time take the route and hold a certain amount of money and if you don’t find what you are supposed to find all you got to do is deduct - why waste my time. I can't tell the guy that I am in trouble and I got to run away.

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Well he wanted it his way he sends his man around for three weeks and his man was satisfied but they are afraid that I'll take back all the locations after I sell them the route. How can I tell them that I won't be around to take the location if I was not in trouble I won't sell the route for any amount of money but what can I do when we go down to see this guy's boss we find out that he went to Florida and he left word that he would see me when he would come back. I don't blame the guy it was just that I was in a hurry because I was afraid that we would go to court one day and they would hold us but these guys when they buy a route from a guy like me they are afraid that if they have some trouble with the route they expect me to go to the front for him. Now if he finds out that I ain't going to be around he would never would buy the route. Then I hear that he did find out that I was in trouble that's why he went to Florida. Now I go to another music box company and they also want to check the route. I waste a week going back and forth and they also found out that I was in trouble. The jukebox business is a funny business if a guy is in the mob the outside guys always feel that if they buy a route from a mob guy the mob guy can always get it back. They feel that a guy like me would go over to the storekeeper and tell the storekeeper that I am selling the route you keep this guy for about six months and then get rid of him. Well I can't blame the poor guys because what I just told you had been done that is why I say that when a mob guy don't

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give the business man a fair deal. They never forget and those are the kind of guys that make it hard for everyone else here I am, I am in trouble and people are afraid to buy the route from me. The time was running short and I did not want the business on my hands as I knew what happened when I was on the lam and I did not want the same thing to happen while all this was going on I did not see Ralph but he did come around and he told me that he found out that we were going to get a lot of time and he told me to make sure that I don't leave him behind. I told him not to worry that I won't leave him behind. Then Frank got in touch with me and he told me that time is running short. I told him that I can't find anything as there is nothing around. I did not know I was only saying it and he tells me yes he knew. Gee now I really had him believing me that I was going to put some stuff in an apartment. Well I tell Ralph again that I am keeping the both of us out again. I tell him later I would tell him what I am doing so go and see if you can get some money and I go looking for that guy Solly. I had signed over the house to the bondsman as I already had in the bondsman's hands a bank book. I did not want to ask for the bank book because I was afraid that he would get wise, I happened to be down town and I meet a couple of friends of mine and they asked me what was I going to do about my case so I tell them that I think that I am going to run I could talk to these guys in this style as they were personal friends of mine.

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So one of them tells me that if I need a place to go I should let him know so I told him fine so I kept it in mind. I went looking for that guy Solly and when I did find him he told me that he was not ready yet so I started to think that he was a phony. I got excited and I get an idea to sell the house in Yonkers as I was afraid that the bondsman would seize it when I would take off so I sold it at a loss of ten thousand dollars just because I had to get cash as I was afraid to let it go through a bank. I was afraid that I won't have time. Gee everytime I think about what I done I don't sleep for a week in fact as I write this right now I had to stop and think about it but I must shake it off my mind or it would hurt me. God if I could only make up for it I would be a happy man as I really hurt my family by doing such a thing that is something that really bothers me. Well there was nothing else to do everyone was afraid to buy the route so I got hold of the kid Solly and I gave him a thousand dollars and I told him that I was going away and see that he does the right thing by my family as I knew it was getting time to go to court. I go and see the lawyer and I asked him to go and see the judge and see how much I would get if I take a plea. Now by taking a plea means plead guilty and save the court expense by not having a trial. The lawyer went to see the judge and the lawyer came back and he told me that I would get seven years. Well for seven years I was not going to run anywhere so I told the lawyer to go and see the judge again and make

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sure, I told him that I would come and see him again before we go to court and I did and in the meanwhile I had notice to appear in court and be ready for trial. When I did go and see the lawyer again he told me that the judge is mad and he said that the judge changed his mind about seven years. He said that the judge wants to give me twelve years. So I did not say a word. Now I made up my mind that I am going to take off. I go and see the guy that introduced me to the people out of town and I tell him to be ready that I intend to take off and I tell him about the guy that I met uptown that has a connection for passports to go to South America. I was good and disgusted and I figured that I would take off once and for all so my friend downtown told me to forget about Solly as some people in Canada have all the connection we need. After I sold the house I bought another house but to compare it with the other house I won't try and tell you I'll just say what the difference in the first house cost one hundred and eleven dollars a month and it was ninety by seventy and it had eight rooms and I spent twenty-five hundred dollars on awnings - they were pretty - they were black and white. The three extra rooms that I built cost me ten thousand dollars and all the trees cost plenty, all kind of trees with all kind of fruit. The new house cost to run right now as it stands today about one hundred and seventy-five dollars a month. I am only talking about what the mortgage cost in the first house. It had oil heat and the new house has

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hot air heat. I guess I told you enough if I say any more one would not believe it so I let it go as it is. Well anyway I go to court and the judge is ready to put me to trial and withdraw my bail. When I heard that the judge is ready to withdraw my bail I tried to get a postponement but the judge refused so I try another scheme. I tell the lawyer to go and see the judge at the bench and ask him if he the judge would give me a month to adjust my affairs and I would plead guilty so the judge said that he would give me two weeks. OK I said. I pleaded guilty and I went back to see those people downtown and I made arrangement as to the day that I would take off after I told them what I had done in court they told me that I should had not pleaded guilty but I explained to them that the judge was going to hold me. Well now they said that I done the right thing. I still went out and tried to sell the route but no good. No one wanted to buy it some of them were afraid that the agents would take the route. I tried to explain to them that the agents cannot take the route but to no avail. They the boys from downtown told me that as soon as one or two of the boys would come over to the U.S. one of them would call me and he would introduce me. I asked the guy if there was any activities where I was going by that I meant that I won't go there if there was any chance of being arrested. I told them that I want to go to South America and I did not care to stay here any more. I was fed up. They assured me that the people in Canada are not doing

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anything illegal. Fine I said. Ina couple of days one of them called me and told me to go down at a restaurant at around Fifty some odd street, I don't remember just where it was. Anyway I met one of the guys from Canada and he told me that I must check in a certain hotel in Buffalo. It was the Statler Hilton. Well now I see Ralph and he is pleaing with me not to leave him behind. When I realize that he really wanted to take off I tell him that I would give him a chance and I'll see how he would act. I was taking off about a week ahead of time so I did not mind. I told him to come the day after that I would arrive in Buffalo but I did not tell any one about Ralph coming in the first place I figured that he won't come so why should I say anything. Well I left New York and I don't remember if I went by plane or train. I think it was by plane. I told Ralph where I'll be but I told him that I won't be there long so if he don't come don't try and find out where I am because if he does it would be very bad. He said that he would come. OK I said I'll see when I got to Buffalo. I checked in the hotel and I never even stuck my head out of the door. The next day one of the guys, his name was Albert, called me this was the fellow that I met in New York City. He told me that he just called to find out if I was there. He told me to stay there and not to go out. I forgot to mention that when I took a cab to get to the hotel the cab driver asked me if I knew John Montano. I told him I did not and I asked him who is he and he the cab driver told me that he Montano was the owner of the cab and I was riding. I knew by looking

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at him that the cab driver was an Italian. He starts to tell me all about Montano. The reason why I am writing this is to show what loud mouths people are - then they want to know how names get around. He never stopped talking about Montano being the boss of this and being the boss of that. Well when he reached the hotel I gave him a small tip so that he won't think that I am one of the boys that is how mob guys give themselves away. I knew he gave me a funny look but I did not care. When I saw Albert I told him all about it and Albert wanted to know if I remember the cab that I was riding. I told him that I did not. I thought to myself I ain't got a chance to look at the town and I got to be involved so we forgot about it. The same night that Albert and his friend comes over to pick me up after being in the hotel four days. Ralph comes believe me I was embarrassed because as I said I did not mention Ralph at all. Ralph started to talk very fast. I supposed that I showed it in my face. Albert told me that I did not say anything about another guy so I told him that I thought it over and I did not want to leave the kid behind. Well those guys are pretty smart fellows and they made me feel better by not mentioning it any more. Albert and John that was the other fellows name told me that we are leaving Buffalo and we are going to cross to the Canadian side. When Ralph heard that we were going to Canada side I thought that he would faint but no one said anything. Albert told me that we are going to ride in another car so

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John spoke up and he said no they don't ride with us. We let Ralph and Joe ride with the other guy and we follow them so they warned us that the people that we are going to ride with are not racketeers they are just local people and they know the cops that are in the booths. When we cross by being with these people that I am going to introduce both of you the cops would only ask you where were you born and you would answer Buffalo and then the cops would ask you why are you going to Canada and you would tell them that you are going there to have a good time. He won't ask you anything else and you don't say anything else and he would tell you to go ahead and don't talk at all with the people that we would introduce you. The first chance Ralph got to talk to me he started to say, gee these guys are very strict. I told him to keep quiet then I told Ralph that he is not used to dealing with serious minded people. It is about time that you would grow up. Well when we met the other guys they introduced us just the way they said and when we reached the booth the cops asked us just what we were told what they were going to ask us and we answered just the way we were told to answer and the cops told us to go ahead. Well after we crossed we rode about fifteen minutes and Albert and John pulled up and we got out of the car we were in and got in Albert and Johnnie's car, We ride about thirty-five miles as it was snowing very hard by this time and they pulled in one of the motels and John and Albert told me that we are supposed to travel about forty miles

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more but the snow is coming down heavy so you and the kid would stay here for tonight and we would pick you up tomorrow and he warned me not to go to the bar of the motel. We checked in the motel and they left as soon as they left Ralph started to bother me about going to the bar but I won't go. Ralph begged me to let him go and have a drink. I told him to go ahead but after he went about five minutes later I went out to see if Ralph was making any calls but he did not so I sent to sleep.

Even though it was early they picked us up early in the morning and we were on our way to Toronto, Canada. By this time the snow had fallen very heavy and we were making no time at all so they checked us in to another motel and they went to make arrangements for us for the following day.. Ralph and I went to have something to eat and then we came back to the motel and again he started to bother me about going to the bar but again I won't go. He came back to tell me that there was a swell blond at the bar so I told him this is a fine time to be worrying about blonds. I did not go. Finally he asked me to go and have some coffee and I was going with him and when we reached near the restaurant John and Albert appeared and I looked like a monkey I felt so ashamed. So they told me Joe you got to get rid of this kid because they notice what he pulled in Buffalo. As I was writing this I forgot to mention what Ralph tried to pull in Buffalo when

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Albert and John brought me to some garage just before we left to cross the bridge. Ralph was with us. I asked to see a certain guy and this guy was important but he was not in town at the moment as he was in South America so they were bringing me to meet the next important guy. Now as we were riding through different streets as they were headed for a garage as the fellow that I was supposed to meet owned the garage as they were pulling in the garage Ralph Wagner wanted to jump out of the car. We were both riding in the back seat. I held him and I told him not to make me look bad. He was saying in a low voice that they are going to kill us. I told him that if he would jump out of the car that is just what would happen. I had to tell him something to keep him in the car. If Ralph would had jumped out of the car it would had shown a sign of guiltiness of some wrong doing. Now when we go into the garage they both jumped out of the car and they said come on Joe, let's go and they told Ralph to stay in the car. As I left I told Ralph not to run away because if he does he would make me look real bad. All three of us went into the garage office and I met the second important guy and as they introduced me to the man he went on to explain that he was sorry that the guy that I wanted to see was not in town but if there is anything that he can do he would be glad to help me. I told him that what I wanted to tell the main guy was personal and I thanked him and he wish me luck and we left. While we were in the first motel I told Ralph you see

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how they did - they left you in the car because you are an outsider. That is the way the mob used to do in New York in the thirties and these out of town mob guys still do the same thing no matter how close an outsider is when it comes to introducing one another the outsider remains in the back. Now I want to know why you wanted to run away. He Ralph said that he thought that they were going to kill me and I told him that he was lying. Then I told him you see how rough this life is and you guys want to get in the mob. Sometimes one must be brave. Don't you think that I felt a little worried when I saw them pulling in the garage but if I get up and run like you wanted to do I'll be ruined. I knew what Ralph had on his mind he never acted himself since I got arrested in Conn. The time that Ralph was supposed to call me and he tipped off the agents but I wanted to give Ralph the benefit of the doubt. All his movements were guilty ones but I would make believe that I did not notice them. He was guilty all the way. Ralph said he won't join this mob for all the money in the world so I had a chance to throw in a dig and I did I said you would be crazy to be in this mob if you are not sincere he knew what I meant because the second hotel that we stopped in Canada Ralph Wagner ran away on me. I remember waking up and I saw him dressed up and he was looking at the window and I asked him what was he doing and he told me that he was going for coffee. I was so sleepy that I did not pay any attention to him and I went

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back to sleep when those two guys came about nine o'clock in the morning and they woke me and they asked me where is Ralph. I felt like two cents. I did not know what to say. One of them, I don't remember which one, said it, I notice the night that we pulled in the garage that he Ralph was scared to death. He had Joe all nerves. Well I had to admit it and Albert said that kid is got a guilty mind and he asked me if Ralph was in my case. I said yes and Albert said you see you would find out that he Ralph Wagner would do something wrong. Well Albert brought me to his house and I met his wife and kid and then his brother Vito came over and he Albert said that he was going to get me a room with an Italian family and that the family has an eighteen year old daughter and she was born in Italy and she is more mature and is smarter than the average eighteen year old. I told him thank you for telling me and I'll assure you that I would hold my place. Another man came over to the house and Albert introduced me to him and Albert told this man to take me to the house and show Joe and see how Joe likes it. After we ate this man I don’t remember his name brought me to the house that I was supposed to live in it had two rooms, a kitchen and a parlor with a bed that closed and opened but no pots and no silverware so that afternoon I went out shopping and I spend about ninety dollars buying pots and pans and of course some food. I was going to buy a T.V. but I put it off for the following morning. I spent that day at this man's house and in the evening I asked if there was any movies in town he said there was

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and he told me what trolley car to take and where to get off and I did. I was surprised to see that it was like Broadway, New York City. I went to see a show it was a burlesque. Gee I said to myself this Toronto is not bad at all. I stayed in the show until about one o'clock in the morning and then I took the trolly car back to the house where I was supposed to stay. When I got there the guy that shopped with me came over to the new rented house and he told me that they have been calling all night for me. I kind of suspected just that as the next day I was supposed to be in court for my sentence. Well I said to myself if they want me to go back to New York I'm not going. Well I went to Albert's house with this other guy as there was where the phone calls were coming and the next call was supposed to come at two o'clock in the morning. Well it did come and I spoke to Tony Bender and he told me to come in as they promised him that I would get five years. I tried to tell him not to go for it and he told me that Sol from Brooklyn was over to see him and Sol knows what he is talking about so I told him OK but I never intended to go in. When I hung up Albert asked me if I want to stay in Canada. I told him that I did want to stay. He Albert told me that I'll stay even if we must have war with New York. Gee don't tell me that I found a couple of guys that are not afraid of New York. They told me that they are going to let me stay. I went back to the house and I was laying on the bed with my clothes on. They came back

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about four o'clock in the morning and they told me that I must go back to New York. I started to dress and I was real mad and I told Albert that I am going to New York but I'm going on my own I'm not going to Tony Bender. No they told me I am supposed to go to the bondsman's house in Brooklyn and they told me to hurry as we must catch the plane at about six o'clock in the morning and they told me that Tony Bender said that I should give my right name on the plane and in case of anything I must tell them that I was on my way to give myself up. Ok I said I'll give my right name. Wait until I get there you would hear that I did not show up you would see they are rushing me to get to the plane. I was stalling hoping that I would miss the plane but I made it. I had about fifty or sixty dollars in Canadian money, I gave to the guy that helped me going shopping and then when I get to the border before I buy the ticket I was told to tell the guy that I came over for a good time for a couple of days if the guy would ask me for my identification I would be sunk. When he opened the grips he saw all worn clothes and he looked at me and asked me if I had a good time and then he asked me where did I meet the girl. I told him in Buffalo and he said OK and I went through. I got on the plane and I was hoping that the plane would fall that was how disgusted I was but the plane got there to New York City safe. When I got off the plane I called Ralph and he was shocked to hear from me. I told him to come to the airport

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and meet me and he Ralph told me to wait for him. I sat there at the airport and I waited. Ralph came and I went to the bondsman's house which was in the end of Brooklyn. On the way Ralph was telling me to run away because he heard from the bondsman that I was going to get fifteen years so I told Ralph that I wanted to hear what the bondsman has to say. We got to the house in about thirty-five minutes and the bondsman was not there. His cousin and his wife was there and I asked where is Al and the cousin told me that Al went to court to arrange things and I should wait for Al to call. So I sat in the house and I waited for the phone call. I'll say that I waited for about a half hour and when Al called he told me to come to court with his cousin and I said OK. We got into the cousin's car and we were on our way to the court. I asked how long it would take to get to the court and the cousin told me about thirty-five minutes. There was a watch on the dashboard of the Cadillac and I was watching when we traveled twenty-five minutes I told the cousin to pull over to the curve as I want to make a phone call but when I got out of the car I hailed a cab and I got in the cab all alone. I ordered the cab to drive me to the Bronx in New York. I made the cab go all the way up to 187 Street and all the time the cousin was following me and when the cab stopped I went toward the Cadillac and when I got close to the car the cousin took off and I hailed another cab and I went to Mt. Vernon, New York, and I called someone and he brought me to his cousin's house and I stayed there for about a week and then I went to a

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friend's house in Jersey and then I came back to the Bronx and I went to another friend's house. I was there with his girl. I stayed there for a while as this girl was working I would stay in the house all day watching T.V. and cooking for myself and the girl I made her buy me a few gallons of paint and I painted the whole house. It came out beautiful. Her boy friend used to come around but he did not stay there because he had to go home to the wife so I was there all alone with her and she said to me that she never met any one so respectable as I. Well I said you see you are a friend of mine's girl so you would find most of my kind respectable because that is the way we are trained. I could not tell her that I was a mob guy and say that it is our rule that is why the guy trusted me with his girl. He was not a mob guy but he understood. Well it took me about a week to paint the house. Everyday I used to cook something different and she liked everything that I cooked. At night we would sit and watch T.V. The boy friend would come all hours of the night and he would stay awhile and sometimes he would stay a whole day. I was contacting my workman on the machines and already the route took a drop. Gee I was sick as I said I just love to take care of that business. Now there was a guy that I knew for years and I happened to see him just before I went away and he wanted to buy about ten jukeboxes and it was a cash deal and I sent this fellow in whose girl friend's house I was. I just remembered his name his name was Harry. I sent Harry looking for this friend of mine and instead

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he meets another friend of mine and this fellow started to talk to Harry but not about me but as they were talking my name came out and this fellow told Harry that Joe is in trouble with the mob and Harry asked him why and this fellow tells Harry that the mob had a fix in for Joe and he Joe was going to get five years but Joe ran away and they the mob figured that the guy can't take five years so when Harry told me about this I sent a note to one of the boys down town and I asked him to see Tony Bender and let him show me where is the five years and Tony Bender sent word back to tell me that it was a sure thing that I would get the five years so if that is the case I told Harry to go down and make an appointment for me and I would go and meet them wherever they say. Happy went down and he saw not only Tony but a couple of more guys so they made an appointment for me at a bar in the Forties on the West Side sometime around ten o'clock. Well I go at the meeting and I meet the bondsman and a couple of more guys and the bondsman tells me that he made a deal for me to get five years for five thousand dollars. I tell him that it is a good deal and if he wants the money he already has a couple of thousand of dollars in his hands as I had given him a bank book when I got out on bail so I tell him that he would get the balance when I get the five years. I asked him when does he want me to come in as this was a Friday night. He made it for Monday. On Monday I went and give myself up. The moment I arrived at the court I knew that it was no good the bondsman had one of the agents hidden some-

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where as I walked in the building. Frank the Agent walks right behind me and I got into the elevator - I pushed the number three button and the agent pushed back the number three button and he pushed the number five button so I pushed back the number three and I told him that I am giving myself up to the bondsman and he let the number three stay there. When I got off the elevator I went straight to the bondsman as he was there waiting for me. We went to the D.A. office and the D.A. greeted me with a shake and a thank you. No one was giving the agent any attention but he would follow us wherever we went so I tell the bondsman is this the way you do things. How did he get here, meaning the agent. He said he did not know but I tell him what did he deam that I was coming. Well I knew it was all phony. I go in front of the judge which was judge Abruzzo and he says, well Joe is safe now I am glad that he walked in by himself. I did not believe it he said. Gee I said to myself even the judge knew that I was coming well being I had pleaded guilty before I went away he put off for sentence. I don't go to court for about two weeks and when I do I was put off for another two weeks then I find out that I am going to get fifteen years. I was told by the bondsman he did not tell me but he sent word in to me but he said that I should not worry. He said that the agent went to see the judge and he the agent told the judge that I made a fool out of him. Now while I am at West Street at the house of Detention, Ralph Wagner

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comes in. They arrested him in Texas. He had run away with two other fellows, one of them was a fighter and his name was Jimmy Archer. I remember Ralph had asked me to do something for him and Ralph had also told me about his brother Joe Archer and I understand that Joe Archer is a good fighter and he has won about thirty fights and lost only a few but anyway with all our trouble who was thinking about fighters. I forgot to mention of all the guys that I met at West Street I found him there when I got there he had ten thousand dollars bail on him and he could not get out so I had him bailed out hoping that he would take care of my machines which he did for himself only. Well anyway I asked Ralph what happened and he said that he ran away and they caught him in Texas. The agent came and see me at West Street and he told me that Ralph Wagner had called his boss George Gaffney and the agent Frank also told me that Ralph told him that I came in on a fix. He said to me that Ralph told him that I expect five years. I told him that it is a lie the Agent told me that he was going to tell the judge that I came in on a deal so I told him why don't you get out of here you make me sick you made an arrest so why don't you go out and make another arrest. What do you want to be judge and jury besides making arrest. Well anyway he called me out again and I blew my top and he did not call me any more and he was calling Ralph every other day and when the boys on West Street started to complain to me I talked to Ralph and he Ralph told me that he is not a mob guy and he has no one to account to. He said he faced a lot

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of years with the both stick-ups against him besides having the case with me. Ralph was a second offender on the junk rap the least he could had gotten was ten years. He could had gotten forty years. I was a first offender and I got fifteen years. Right here anyone can see the difference. I bring this out because later I want to tell who was the cause of my troubles in Atlanta and Ralph Wagner was one of them. The kid Solly did warn me. He told me that if I had anything going for me I should make sure that Ralph does not know anything about it. I asked the kid just what did he mean. I knew what he meant but I wanted him to say it more sure to relieve my mind and to confirm just what I thought all the time. I can't understand how a kid would take such chances, even the bondsman told me that Ralph was working two ways. Well I leave for Atlanta and Ralph remaines at West Street. He had to settle the two stick-ups charges.

When I get to Atlanta I happened to be on the same bus as John Dio. He was on his way to Atlanta also he had got four years for income taxes so we became close until we reached Atlanta. When we got to Altanta we were in what they call the A.N.O. - it means for thirty days we cannot go into population but we do see the other inmates as we go back and forth to the mess hall or to the hospital and on Sundays we go to church and there is where we meet the other inmates especially the ones who want to talk to you and it was here that I met Vito Genovese and he gave me a funny look and I told him that Tony Bender almost forced me to

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come in. He remained shocked and as he would see us marching back and forth and he would see me with Johnnie Dio he would act cold. I could not understand why he was doing it and besides he sent Johnnie Dio all kind of things and he did not send me anything. When an inmate is in the A.N.O. he cannot buy anything in the commissary and when a guy is in the A.N.O. he needs cigarettes, toothpaste and all sorts of toilets. Once Johnnie asked me how come when I see Vito Genovese I cross from one side to another. I told him that it was not I that was crossing it was Vito and he Johnnie said he would take notice the next time that we would meet. I did not want to tell Johnnie Dio these things but he put me in a spot when he asked me these things and he figured that I belong with Vito Genovese that is what was bad about it. I was so mad that I could had stepped out of the line and rap Vito right in the mouth and the other trouble maker Joe Beck would ask Johnnie questions about me - say he would ask what kind of a guy was I. If I was a yes man for bosses and things in that style. Imagine Joe Beck asking those kind of questions about me. I did know Joe Beck from the outside world but I never had anything to do with him. He would wave at me and that's all he would do but I had to laugh when I heard that he wanted to know if I was a yes man for the bosses. Johnnie himself had to laugh. Everyone knows that I am almost a boss hater and the reason for hating them was because one cannot tell

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them anything - they know everything but I can't Say all of them, there is a few that listen to you and Vito Genovese was one of the type that no one can tell him anything. Well anyway as the thirty days were going along I started to notice that Joe Beck is a boss yes man and I told Johnnie about it and Johnnie did not say anything and I notice that when Johnnie Dio did notice that Vito was cold with me he Johnnie Dio himself started to act cold. Once I blew my top in the A.N.O. and I don't remember just what started me off and I was saying one guy sends me in and the other kick me. What I meant was that my Lt. Tony Bender made me come in and my boss Vito Genovese kicks me. Now if something like this don't get you then one is not a man. Now we go to church again and all of a sudden Vito comes and sits right along side of me and he asked me to tell him the whole story as to how Tony Bender told me to come in so I tell him about it and I also tell him that I turned over the jukebox business to my nephew as I met him in Lewisburg Federal Prison when one is shipped to Atlanta the bus does not make just one stop, the first stop is Lewisburg. They leave us there and we may stay there one day or even two or three weeks. This time I was lucky I only stayed there two days and while I was there my nephew Fiore came over to me and asked me to go to the hospital the following day as he wanted to talk to me. I said OK I'll meet you there in the morning Fiore was finishing up his eight years that he was doing - he only had a few months to go. The next morning

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I go to the hospital and I meet Fiore and the first thing he tells me was that he has nothing to do when he goes home so I tell him about the jukeboxes and I tell him that I got a kid and I tell him about Solly then I told him what the business is worth and I tell him that I signed the business to Solly because I did not want it under my wife's name because if they do anything wrong my wife won't get the rap and I am not in the habit of involving my family. They are honest and I want them to remain honest. Well I tell Fiore to share the business with my family. I tell him that if he would put his mind on the business he could build it up to about six or seven hundred dollars a week. Well he was tickled to death. Now the reason why I told Vito Genovese about it because I wanted it on record that I gave the business to Fiore so that he cannot do the family out of it - one never knows. Well I'll go back to Vito in church. He asked me if I need anything and I told him that I did not if I did need anything I still won't tell him. One does not ask he sends and he did not send for two weeks so I don't want anything. He tells me when we were about to leave the church that if I meet Frank Costello I should congratulate him he I reinstated him, meaning that Frank Costello after he got shot instead of shooting him again he Vito Genovese had him thrown out of the mob and no one was allowed to talk to him. This is not new lots of guys were thrown out of the family through the years. By reinstating him it meant that he was put in the mob but only as a soldier. So we left the church and I did not see Vito much until I came out of the

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A.N.O. but I did see Frank as they brought us by us I mean the A.N.O, through all the factory in Atlanta and while they brought us in the tin shop as that was were Frank worked so I went there and I congratulated him and he gave me a cold hand again I felt like smashing him in the face. Johnnie was there and he notice it but we did not talk about it. I was fit to be tied. Well the thirty days are up and Johnnie and I go up to be assigned to work. Well I must say that I got the worse job in the joint and Johnnie Dio got a pretty good job in the clothesroom. I was put in the mess hall. Well it hard on me as I had to get up five o'clock in the morning. I worked there against my will but I started to scheme and I must see what I got to do as I see it I know I am a diabetic and I must take Arinase even though I am negative. It makes no difference, after all I can get a dizzy spell in the kitchen and hurt myself so I put a request to see my parole officer. Each inmate is assigned to a certain parole officer. Maybe four or five hundred inmates have the same parole officer. The one that I had was a fine fellow, I just can't think of his name. Well in about a week he, the parole officer, sent for me and I tell him my story and he agreed with me. He said that they should not have put me in the Mess Hall in the first place. I was called again and this time the priest got interested and in about a week I was taken out of the Mess Hall and put to work in the green house. Well this was different only one thing was bad about it there was a phony guy working in there and he was in the same cell with

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Vito Genovese. I knew he was trouble as soon as I saw him. I had known him before because he was on the same bus with me in 1956 the first time that I had went to Atlanta but as I told you I got out in five days. This guy's name was Cripple Angelo. He had got shot when he was arrested and he remained a cripple ever since. I knew that Angelo knew a guy that I knew and Angelo knew and Angelo knew that I did not like the guy because the guy was a phony like Angelo and leave to Vito Genovese to go and find phonies to hang out with so I figured that I must be careful as to what I talk about in the green house. I looked around for the first four or five days that I was in the green house and I picked a guy that came from out of town to hang out with and this guy did not like Angelo so right off the bat we understood ourselves. When Angelo saw me walking up and down with this guy he, Angelo, tried to tell me something but I stopped him and I told him that I am old enough to know whom I want to pal out with. Now this guy had another friend and he was a nice guy too. One day we were sitting down in the inside of the green house as it was raining and we were talking about horses and jukebox business. The next thing that happened was Vito called me over one day and he told me that I should not talk about horses in the green house or even mention jukeboxes. Gee I said what is wrong with talking about horses especially when one ain't talking about crime, how can anyone get in trouble talking about horses or jukeboxes. Vito said to me it is better that I act small so the guys won't know who I am. Gee I said I

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ain't acting in any kind of way, all we are doing is talking about something to make the time pass. Vito said to me that he did not know that I had horses. I told him that there is a lot of things that he did not know. Now here was a spot to start talking and I did. I told Vito could I have a good talk with you and he said yes, let's go to the end of the yard this way no one would see us. We went to the end of the yard and we started to talk. The first thing that I asked him was why is he acting so cold. I tell him this is prison and if the inmates see him acting cold well they would be acting the same way. He said that he was sore at Tony Bender and Vinnie and he figured that I was with them. Gee I told him I came and see you twice since you came back from Italy and twice you told me that Tony Bender was my boss, meaning that you did not want me to say anything and then I asked you if everything was in harmony and you told me yes. After all you are a tough man to try and tell you something. You take the case of Joe DeMarco I still tell you that I did not say what he said that I had said. As I finished saying it he made a mad face so I told him you see you are getting mad. I swear to you I said its all over but I did not say what Joe DeMarco said and I told you that he had a silver plate in his head. See how long he lasted and you must have heard how many arguments he had before he got killed. Well he just looked and did not say anything. Then I told him remember when I came in the barber shop downtown and Tony Bender was with me well I did not want to come with Tony when someone mention that you were in

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the barber shop I got up to come and talk to you but Tony asked me if I was going to come and see you I said I did and he Tony said that he would take a walk with me. What was I going to say so I said OK and we come over and I am sure you notice that I wanted to talk to you. He answered me back and he said why didn't you come over to my house with your family. I said I thought of coming to your house but I was afraid of the cold shoulder and I won't dare come. He said that is another thing you never came over the house since I came back from Italy. I said I came to Jersey twice and I thought that you would tell me to come to your house but you never did after all how can I come to your house if you don't encourage me am I telling the truth or am I wrong. Tell the truth. He said that I was right and then he said that I was always with Vinnie. Gee I said you mean to tell me that you don't know that I never made a nickle with them. Gee I felt like a heel whenever I came downtown in fact I felt like an outsider, after all Tony kept me down all through the years that I have been down there. I waited for you to get back from Italy as I figured that things would be different when you came back now at the end of Tony's road I must suffer with him. It don't make any sense. I had it bad all the way and if Tony has it bad now let him have it bad all by himself or let the ones who profit by him stay with him then I asked him if I was wrong and he said no I was right. Now the time is up and we must go into the cell block as this is

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1960 that I am talking about I was not in Vito's cell in 1960 so we left off that we would see ourselves the following night. Now when we were walking into our cells I notice the inmates looking. Boy I said to myself is this the way it is. I saw plenty of jealousy around but I did not mind and I met Joe Beck and he asked me how am I making out with the old man and I said pretty good, I didn't think that they were going to scheme against me. Well the following night we met again and we continued to talk. During the night I was thinking about what I was going to talk about and the first thing I asked him was if he hot his end on the junk deal the time that I did business with Tony and we paid or Tony paid Frank Costello twenty thousand dollars that you were supposed to owe to Frank and Frank is here and you can ask him if you want to. He looked at me and he said that he did not know about the twenty thousand dollars but he did not say let's ask Frank because he knew that it was true. Then we spoke about Little Augie. He said that Augie had made an appointment with Jerry from Jersey that they were going to play a game of golf and when Tony found out that they were going to play golf he Tony came over like a little boy and he asked Vito if he Tony could go along with them so Vito told him yes he can go and play golf with them. When it came to the time that they were going the following day Augie did not show up but he Augie made a beef that Jerry did not show up. Vito said that when he heard that Augie did not show up and then he made a beef that Jerry did not show up well Vito figured that Augie is back to

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his old habits. He was always a trouble maker. Vito went on to say that is the reason why Vito ordered his death. If Augie did a thing like that I said to him he was not too smart. He Augie knew that he just made it at the time Frank got hurt. Well what can I say I said I did not know Augie well enough to make any comment. I did want to say one thing but I dared not to before I got a chance to say anything Vito said that they had a hard time getting him because that dope Tony Bender was with Augie all the time. One night Vito said they called me up and they asked me if they can get Tony to because Tony was always in the way so I made a slip I said I get mad at Tony but I don't like outsiders making a statement of that sort that Frank is got a real swell head I said and Vito looked at me when I said it and he told me where did I hear that it was a Frank that called Augie so I told him that one night Tony and I were talking about it he just looked when I said it so he did not mind. Could you imagine if I asked why did they hit the girl he would had jumped on me. Then he went on to say that it came out for the good that Frank did not die because he Frank knows a lot of people and he can help him and Frank is going to try and get his lawyer to fight Vito's case on his appeal. Well Frank had a hard time but he got the lawyer for Vito. So Chin and Tommy were not bad guys any more of course you remember who Chin and Tommy were. Well they were the guys that were on the scene when Frank got hurt. Now he asked me for the details

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in my case as long as Tony sent you in he said Tony must help you so I said I got good grounds for a rehearing and he Vito asked me what did I have. Well I said after I gave myself up and I found out that I was going to get fifteen years I asked the lawyer to withdraw my plea of guilty as I want to stand trial after all the most they can give me is twenty years so it worth the gamble I might get an extra five years but I might win to. After about a month or two Vito had his lawyer some guy by the name of Daves come and see me and he asked me for the details. When I told him he thought that we had a fine chance. Well when I came out of the visiting room Vito was very happy to hear that the lawyer thought we had a good chance because my lawyer had a right to tell the judge that I wanted to withdraw my plea. I was happy to, everything was going fine when all of a sudden Vito got cold again. Frank Costello told me the reason why Vito got sore at me he said that someone told Vito that my nephew was working for me when I went and see Vito and I told him about it he Vito told me that Frank Costello is the one who found out that my nephew worked for me so I asked Vito if I can grab Frank and Vito said no so I gave up. As I worked in the greenhouse one of the inmates used to bring flowers to Frank up in the tin shop because Frank liked roses and this fellow used to ask me if I wanted to bring the flowers to Frank. I would edge him off by telling him that it won't be fair to him by me bringing the flowers not only that it looks bad that I did not make a fuss when I saw Frank or Vito but inmates

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wonder what's wrong when they notice something like I am tell you. I understood the move they Frank and Vito would give any punk attention although it did not mean anything but they knowing that I understood those moves they were trying to make it hard for me after all the inmates would ask me the question not to them if it was not for my machines that I had gave to my nephew I would had requested to be shipped to another prison but I had to hang around Atlanta just in case my nephew did not do anything right toward the family. Well after about four months I find out that my nephew was not doing the right thing toward my family and someone told me that my family thinks that I gave the machines to my nephew and told him to keep them for himself which was not true. Now I am forced to tell Vito all about it as he is the boss. I send word to Vito that I want to talk to him and he had sent word back to me telling me that he would see me on a certain night as he did not come out of his cell everyday. At this time Vito was coming out of his cell only twice a week when I did see Vito I asked him if he remembered that I had told him about me giving the machines to my nephew. He said that he did so I tell him that he my nephew ain't doing the right thing or he can't do that. Vito said I take care of this he said let my brother come up and I'll tell him all about it. I told him that I want to sell the route. I figured no matter how much it is worth it will be better for everyone concerned and Vito told me that my route is

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worth twenty-two thousand dollars as Tommy figured it and Tommy knows the jukebox business. Well I was glad that the route only dropped half. I was satisfied. Every month I was getting a different story. The next thing that he tells me that they bought another route and they put it together with the route that I had. I said I don’t care what they done as long as they buy me out. I find out the kid Solly had half of my route sold for ten thousand five hundred dollars and my nephew stopped the sale telling my wife that he would build the route up and my wife would have an income every week. My wife being a good soul told him as long as you can make a living I won't sell and she went along with his lies. Then my wife gets hit with the tax that the machines earned the year before and she never got a penny from anyone so she was afraid to get in trouble with the Government. She went and sold my life insurance and she had to come to Atlanta as I had to sign it. When I saw what she had to do I cried and I did not tell Vito anything about it and that is all that was going on next month and next month.

Now I notice that Vito is giving a lot of attention to Johnnie Dio and there was in Atlanta at least eight or nine of Albert's old men by old men I don't mean that they are old, I mean they were with Albert a long time and there was a couple of new ones. One can't get it off his chest and confide to anyone because they would run like a rabbit to tell Vito about it. Outside he gave us orders to stay away from Albert's men and that makes enemies. Now most of them are giving me the cold

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shoulder but I did not care about them but the idea is that Vito is giving them a lot of attention and they are carrying a chip on their shoulder, especially one of them he was a Lt. and he had outside about 12 old men once to rub it in. I asked him how many men have you got under you and he told me about a dozen and I asked him if I knew them and he said that I knew most of them and he started to tell me their names. Everyone of them were over sixty years old with the exception of about two so I told him why don't you retire them and he laughed and I laughed with him. This one thought he was cute. As far as I was concerned I did not even know that he was alive and besides I knew that his wife was going out with a friend of his while he was in jail. That's the kind of stuff that goes on in this life in these times a guy like me must be disgusted with himself and this Joe Beck guy is always passing a crack about Vito Genovese and if you answered me Vito would know what I said but Vito would never know what he Joe Beck said because I would never tell him. I won't care if the whole joint knew whatever was said between Joe Beck and I but I would never say anything. Vito and Frank were acting cold and all the boys would be around them like little lambs. It did not bother me it only made me lose respect for them. I thought they were men of brains but now I see they are no better than the average fellow. If they only knew what I thought of them they would had stabbed me and yet I had to

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put a good front. Once Joe Beck told me you know Joe you must be nice to those two guys, I was disgusted and I answered him in a fresh way. I told him the kind of nice that they want me to be is impossible. He said to me why I said it is hard to satisfy them. Then Joe Beck said to me do I want to be an outlaw. I said from the way they act I am an outlaw already. I don't know what I did for them to act so cold. I came to a conclusion that I don't care how they act. What can I tell you I told him well you are an outlaw I can see from the way you act. I said I done time before when I was young and believe me it was nothing like this they were different men, everyone helped one another over here everyone thinks he is someone. He just shook his head and he walked away. Well now I get another look from Vito meaning that Joe Beck must have told him what we talked about there you are from a simple little talk with Joe Beck he made a deal out of it. Well by this time I did not care as I was still being stalled as far as the machines were concerned.

One day a guy came to me and told me that he was going to cut up some guy. When I saw the guy that he intended to cut up I knew him but he was not a friend of mine but he was always walking around with a dear friend of mine and this guy came from Buffalo and I had a lot of respect for him. I tell the guy that came to me that he better hold off and the guy told me that the guy is going to cut me so I told him to stay here with me and don't worry, the guy saw you talking to me

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he would not do anything as long as you are with me. The other guy was looking at me so I called him over and he came and he asked me if this guy that had first came over was a friend of mine. I tell him he was. Well the guy told me that this guy that is with you told someone that he was going to cut me. Well I told him no matter who said this and that just let's forget about cutting as we were talking my friend came over and he also asked me if this guy is a friend of mine. I said that he was and the guy from Buffalo started to yell at my friend and I told him wait a minute I don't want you to yell at this guy, if we are going to talk let's talk like men. With that my friend talked in a low tone and the other two guys were accusing one another about each telling someone about the cutting but we made them shake hands and we told them that they should be friends as they both worked in the laundry and everything was settled. So that night I met Vito as he was walking around so I went and told him that I stopped a cutting match and I had no time in looking for him. He said that he heard about it and that I done the right thing. Well I started to think. Now I know why he told me to make myself look small. Gee I can't believe it I said to myself it can't be - boy oh boy. I don't want to be involved in settling these kind of troubles it comes to me and I could not say wait I got to see Vito about it so to see if I was right another night

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that I met Vito I told him you know Vito I had no time to come and see you when these guys wanted to cut one another. He said I know. Oh boy, it is true I said to myself. For a month I could not get over it. Power crazy I said to myself.

One day Vito called me and he asked me who is Ralph and I told him some kid that is in my case and I asked him why and he Vito told me that Ralph is bothering Angelo he wants to come in my cell. I don't know this kid he said why does he want to come in my cell. I tell Vito I can ask him and he Vito said to me I don't want you to say anything but when I saw Ralph I asked him are you trying to get into Vito's cell and he said no, Well I said is Angelo a liar and he Ralph said Gee I don't know anything about it. Well Vito tied my hands as he told me not to say anything so I was forced to keep quiet. This is 1960 that I am talking about.

Now I used to be on the Bocci Court every chance that I had when we had our yard or the hand ball court. I did not like walking around as I figured one runs out of talk it would get so that there won't be left anything left to talk about. After all I did not mingle with too many guys. Everyone felt important that walked around with Vito or Frank. I don't mean to say that I did not care to talk to Frank or Vito it was a pleasure to talk to men like Frank and Vito but Vito or Frank did not know that after they did talk to either one of them they would come and tell me what Vito or Frank is going to do for them. When these top guys got out of prison there was very few of these guys that knew Vito or Frank from the

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outside. I was a pretty good Bocci ball player and we used to play and the winner would play the next team that was waiting. Sometimes on the weekend there would be eight or nine teams that would be waiting to play the winners so one would want a good partner to play on his side so that he would be on the court all afternoon if he could beat everyone and that happened quite often. Now Vito and his crew started to play and when I played against Vito somehow I used to play my best and I could not help but notice that Vito will look at me and a few times that I got Vito for a partner I would play a little bad and then I would wait for another game and I would have another partner if we had time before lock up time and if I played a good game Vito would say to me how come you did not play good when you played with me. I would say I guess the more hard a guy would try the worse he would play. What can I say it just happened that's all. If I list in the early stages of the game I would go to the hand ball court and I would play handball and I would stay away from the young champs because they were too fast for me. I would play with guys that played in the same style as I played. Sometimes I would play four or five games of handball of twenty-one points. They started to say that 1 am going to die on the hand ball court because one of the players dropped dead at the hand ball court. He was about fifty-seven years old so I would hear that I am next if I don't stop so I would go and see the doctor and I would ask him to look me over as

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I am playing hand ball he would check my heart and when he did he will tell me to play all day if I cared. I won't tell anyone that I went and see the doctor. I just kept on playing and I did not pay any attention as to what I would hear them say. One day Frank €ostello asked me how old I was and when I told him that I was fifty-seven years old he sort of laughed at me so I asked him if he can give me one good reason why I should lie about it, I want to listen. He said I thought that you were older that's all. After all I been hearing your name for a long time so I told him I'll bet you that you don't even know that I came from the same block that you came from. He asked me where I originated from. When I told him 108 Street he looked at me. Then I asked him if he remembers some of the boys that were around in 1912 for instance Sharky. He gave me another look. He asked me to describe Sharky and when I did he asked me how old were you at that time. When I told him that I was only nine years old at that time. He said and you remember him. I said that even though I was only nine years old I remember because when he was killed I lived in the same building where Sharky got killed in the cafe and until this day I remember how I was peeping in the cafe through the keyhole and saw Sharky laying with his head on the card table and his face on the table in a pool of blood how can a kid forget such a thing and to tell the truth I was always afraid to go home at night ever since it happened. Finally my people had to move out of the building because when I did not go home and they would ask me where I

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have been all night. I would say that I was afraid to come home because of Sharky. Then Frank asked me where did you come from 109 Street or 108 Street. I said that Sharky got killed 109 Street and from there we moved 108 Street. He said that I was right and he looked at me sort of puzzled. Then Frank told us as we were a couple of guys from the neighborhood having a little talk that the Mayor of New York City called him and asked Frank how did he like the idea of putting a Second Avenue subway and as Frank was saying it he laughed. He said that he told the Mayor to go ahead then said what interest was it of mine he wants to build a Second Ave. Subway go ahead and build it. Then the Mayor told Frank that it ought to bring in a lot of votes. Frank told the Mayor it will sure bring a lot of votes for the benefit of those that do not come from New York City. I would tell you why a Second Ave. Subway would be good there is only one subway on the East Side and a Second Ave. Subway would go right in the middle because four blocks separate the difference with the Second Ave. Subway, it would be only two blocks either way. Then Frank talked about his little interest in the whiskey business that he holds. I don't remember the brands. I forgot them I must say that it was a pleasure to listen to Frank even though he did not give me any attention at all. I did not mind because I myself am not stupid I understood I did not blame Frank I blame Tony Bender or Vito Genovese because that was the way they wanted it. I had a little talk with Vito Genovese and I told him the

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way Frank Costello was acting. I told Vito that through the years I have had my own little name and that Tony Bender always belittle me and I did not care. I told Vito all the members that were with other outfits could had been with him today. I told Vito and I mention at least a dozen names that I could had brought down to Tony Bender and if I brought them to Tony Bender of course they would had been with Vito today and Vito is not the kind of a guy that one can bluff. If I made a statement Vito was in a position to know if what I was saying had any foundation. He knew that the names that I mention came from my neighborhood and I hung out with them one time or another. I'll tell you everyone of these guys were livewires. I do not care to put some of their names in this book because I don't want them to get into any trouble with their own boss it would not be fair. I'll tell you of one kid that I loved and still would not let him go to Tony Bender because I knew that Tony Bender would break his heart. Very little fellows knew how close this kid was with me. I saw him grow up but I would not dare put him in the mob. I knew that his father had money and I figured why let the kid get tangled up with a mob he was no troublemaker and he was such a nice looking kid and he had such a nice disposition that everyone loved him and he used to come to my restaurant no matter where I was. As long as I had a restaurant this boy was sure to come with his little dolls. No one would know that he was in the place

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he was so quiet. One day he came and see me and he sat me down and he told me that one of the fellows that is a good friend of mine and is in the same outfit that I am has approached him and wants him to be with him downtown with Tony Bender so I tell him that this is a very important talk and it could mean my head and if I talk to you and whatever I'll tell you after you leave here must be forgotten. He said that he rather die than to hurt me. Then I told him to go ahead and talk. He began with that his father always told him that if ever he has to make a move and he the son must go with anyone the best guy to be with would be me. I knew his father all of my life and his father was a business man but knew the score because he has been in business in my neighborhood since I was a baby and as I grew up I knew that he the father was very friendly throughout the years with whomever was in power. One must remember that if a business man comes from a neighborhood like I came from he must be nice even if he don't mean it - say for instance a collection is being made by some of the guys in the neighborhood for one thing or another, this man will always put his share regardless of what the collection was for. Well this kid asked my advice. He said that his own friends want him to be with them and now this guy that is with you comes and he wants me so my father told me that I should come and see you. Pal I told him I could talk to you I would like nothing better than to have you with me. You see the experience I have had with the Pagano Brothers I brought them in the mob and

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Mr. Tony Bender stole them away from me. He would do the same thing with you and I know the guy that spoke to you not that he told me but I know and I don't want to put you on any spot as to ask you. The kid answered me and he told me that my father told me to tell you who came to me. OK I'll tell you what I'll do I'll tell you who the guy is. I don't want you to tell me and the kid said I know that you know who the guy is so I told him the guy and I also told him that the guy that came to you needs advice himself. All of a sudden he wants to give advice that is the reason why I don't go around with him any more. Then the kid said the father is wondering why this guy mention Joe's name and yet Joe did not tell you anything so it best you go and see Joe and do whatever Joe tells you to do. OK I said that is enough say no more and if you have to go with someone go with your friends and beside you would be with the best boss in the mob he would give you money not take it from you the way my boss does but don't misunderstand me they never got any money from me but I lost a lot of deals and the reason why I lost a lot of deals was that I rather lose them than to give him a piece of them. Of course I was talking about my Lt. Mr. Tony Bender. Once Willie Moore saw us together in some joint and the first thing Willie said, hey what are you two guys doing together and Tony answered and told Willie we are hanging out together do you mind so Willie said no I don't mind but I know that it won't be for long. I did not

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say a word so the kid said that he had heard about this. Gee I said things do get around. Well kid I said I know I won't get the best of it but I don’t care it is my pride and the kid said I know my father told me a lot of stories. I believe it I said because I know who your father done business with when you were a kid and they were guys that I fought all of my life and they got all the money. We broke it up and we remained that this conversation that we had would die forever and before he left I told him to tell my friend where he intended to go and if he comes to me. I told the kid I'll tell him that I don't know nothing and if they want that I talk to you I would refuse. OK I said good luck to you. It was not long after we had this talk and my friend came and see me and he tells me that he had spoken to this kid and the kid chose the other outfit. I told him that I was not surprised and then I told him you know I was raised in Harlem and I could had gotten half of Harlem for Tony Bender but I won't get a cat for him any more. To begin with they respect me until I put them in Tony's hands and then after they are with Tony a while they not only don't come near me any more but some of them don't even respect me anymore. Now you know why I want to be alone and one day I would tell you why this kid went the other way - oh you know my friend said. I don't know nothing I said. You know everything and I gave him a sharp look. This is one of the things that I told Vito but I did not tell him who the kid

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was and I gave it to him in a sort of a highlight. I was only trying to prove to him that Tony Bender and hig friend were not close to me as he Vito thought. I hope that the reader can understand everyone of these conversations outside would had meant a lot of trouble for me. The bosses do not want that we would be friendly. They want us to stay at a distance from one another so that one guy would not wise up another guy. In this case they the bosses can tell the soldiers a lot of bull like Vito Genovese told Pat Pagano that he Vito ordered Joe DeMarco’s death because of Pat Pagano's brother Joe. What a baloney that was. I still can't get over it. Now when Tony Bender got close to some of the boys from my neighborhood I don't say all of them but most of the guys told me that Tony Bender does not know who you really are. I must explain this to the readers, after all I was in the mob. There ain't a guy on earth that can say that I dogged it one time or another and I have done things with many many guys. I ain't bragging I am only telling you why Tony Bender could not put over his knock too well. Let me tell you about just one guy that came from my neighborhood. He told me that he was down the Gold Key Club on 56 Street and a conversation came up with Tony Bender and somehow my name came up and Tony Bender said that I don't even know how to talk when it comes to sitting on a table and this guy from Harlem told him that he Tony keep all the guys that know how to talk and he would take all the Joe's that

- 1005 -

he has. The guy came and told me and he did not care if I went and told Tony Bender about it or not. Then I explained to this guy as long as you brought it up I want to tell you something that Tony is right that I don’t know how to talk. One thing I like to tell you I told this fellow I'm sorry that you made Tony Bender understand otherwise because to begin with I ain't looking for any work and second can you speak on any table if whatever you say is not heard. I was used to being hears now since I am with this guy Tony Bender no matter what I'll say he just makes faces so I try to have the shortest conversation I can possibly have with him. He don't enjoy my talk and I don't enjoy his so we are even and besides he is my boss and I can't say very much and this guy told me that he told Tony Bender I want to tell you something Mr. Bender if there ever would be any trouble like there used to be in the old days pray that Joe is on your side. I promise you that if Joe ain't on your side he would be all out looking for you and remember my words and you can ask anyone that knows him. I can see that you Tony have been so long with Joe and you don't even know him because you listen to Bobby Doyle everyone knows it, everyone talks about it and everyone gives you wrong and everyone knows that Joe respects you as a boss and that is all well. This fellow told him if I had men I would see for myself who they are - not let punchdrunk fighters like Bobby Doyle tell me who is who. Come on Tony wake up and get wise to yourself. You

- 1006 -

can't buy Joe - try and see. The reason why I defied Tony Bender was because we had what we called six Councilmen - they are like jurors and when it came that a member had to be tried for his life one of the bosses would sit in the reason why this was put in because in the old days a soldier did not have a chance any Lt. or boss could had killed a soldier for his own personal reason but right after Mr. Marazano was killed Charlie Lucky put this law into the Cosa Nostra to protect the soldiers as in my case with Tony Bender although he tried to frame me a couple of times in the thirty years that I was with him but he did not succeed and after he tried a couple of times he Tony Bender was warned and if he tried again he himself will pay with his life if he failed. That was the reason why I took advantage and I did not worry about Tony Bender. I knew he could not do anything about it but I did lose a lot of chances of making money but I rather have my life than worry about money so I took the worse of everything when it came that Tony must sit in and make a decision on some deal that I was involved. I rather not have the table and I would give up the argument rather than make Tony give me the worse of it and it cost me a lot of money as I said I did not mind. Sometimes I made another member go to the front for me and to think when Tony Bender got in trouble with Vito I had to be involved, it is almost unbelievable. I would explain more about this later on. Now I would go back to the conversation what

- 1007 -

I was having with Frank in Atlanta. We broke it up and I went and play Bocci again for the benefit of those that do not know what Bocci is I would explain the best way I can if there are four men playing on the court each has two large balls made of something that I cannot explain. One could hit with them as hard as he wants and nothing will happen to the ball then there is a smaller ball and the one who throw first gets the smaller ball. He throws the smaller ball on the court wherever he wishes to throw it. Now the idea is to throw the larger ball and get it close to the smaller ball. Then the next man throws and he would try and beat the other guy by getting close to the small ball if he fails to beat the other guy then he must throw again and his partner tried to beat him and if he fails then the other two guys that are partners must throw the other balls that they have in their hands and see how many points that they can get out of this frame and if no one gets any closer then they start all over again and the first team will have a lead on the game by a score of one to nothing and 11 points wins. This is the best way I can explain it. For awhile no one could come near me. All I want to do is play Bocci and I would be on the court at every opportunity. Now everyone is getting the sickness of playing Bocci so we had to get two courts. There were about six courts all told. The good players would be on one court and the learners would be on another court and when they became experienced they would move to our court. Everything was fine until the boss started to come on our court. It

- 1008 -

was so funny that the guards used to ask us if there was anyone who would go out and try and beat Vito. I for one would make believe that I did not hear the guard but I would laugh. One of the guards was a nice guy and he liked the way I played and he would like to watch a serious game. It is very interesting to watch and sometimes when I lost I would stay at the court and watch because some good player may had been playing and I did not like the guys that were starting to come around so I started to go and play handball. In no time at all everyone gave up the Bocci so I started to go back to the Bocci again. Johnnie Dio never played. He was too busy walking around practicing his talk as he was nothing but a talker as he is an organizer and he had to stay in form - by an organizer I mean he was a union organizer and he was always talking about Jimmy Hoffa and he kicked Hoffa's name around plenty and he would impress everyone that was willing to listen to him. In the wintertime there would be no Bocci only handball. Although there would be not much winter in Atlanta and the summer would come around so fast that one could not abandon his shorts we were allowed to walk around in shorts in the summer time and almost all of the sports had matched games. On Fourth of July there would be a tournament on all of the sports and the winner would receive a certain amount of cigarettes. I did not enter the Bocci or any other tournament. I did not want anyone to think that I was looking for free cigarettes and besides I figured let the guys play in the tournament that needed the cigarettes there were plenty of inmates

- 1009 -

that had no money so it was wise to let them alone, One thing 1 cannot get in mind where did all the boy girls come from that were in Atlanta. One day I was marching in the main hall and we were on our way to our cells and I notice that the guard was looking towards me and shaking his head back and forth and laughing. I did not think that he was looking at me so I looked behind me to see if he was looking at the guy in back of me - sure enough I see a guy and I'll say that he was about five ten in height and he had a pair of legs that any girls would welcome - he was all shaved and he had tight shorts on and he had the strut of a model. I could not believe my own eyes. I have been in Sing Sing Prison in my earlier days but one could count the number of girls but today no one could keep up with the number of girls that I saw in Atlanta. I did not notice it until this incident happened and as I said I worked in the greenhouse I had made friends with some guy from New Orleans and he was locked in the same cell that I was and there are eight in one cell. He was always asking me that we should get out of Block A and go to Block D. I asked him why we should go into cell Block D he told me that in cell Block D it has cells with only two in one cell instead of eight. Well I would like to stay in a cell with one man instead of eight so I go an investigate. Well it turned out that cell Block D was built in the early days and it was a two by four so I told the guy no good. Now the next thing he does he

- 1010 -

asked me if I care to read a dirty book. Well being in jail I did not turn it down so I told him that I won't mind reading a dirty book so that night in the cell showed me the book and it had a lot of nice naked girls and naked boys and a lot of nice sayings so I got interested and I started to read and the boys in the cell wanted to play cards but I could not take off my mind what I was reading so one of the guys in the cell came over and asked me what was I reading so I showed it to him and this fellow came from my neighborhood on the outside and when he saw what I was reading he went into a rage and he asked me who gave me the book. I told him who gave me the book he was in the same cell and my friend being he was in the prison twenty months he was familiar with what was going on he snatched the book away from me and he told me that I was reading all about boys that they have in the prison so I asked him you mean to tell me that I am reading all about boys and he my friend told me that I was reading a book that they print right here in the prison and they print these books right in the print shop when the guard is not looking so I looked at the guy that gave me the book and as I told you he was the guy that wanted to go in cell block D with me so I told him you want me to read all about boys how would I look if one of the boys saw me reading this book I would be so embarrassed that I will put my face in between my legs so I told him to do me a favor and get himself taken out of my cell. I was so mad that I felt like hitting him

- 1011 -

on the head with a chair but I had to be calm about it as I did not want to make a scene. Now I can't remember the loving words that I was reading and the nice shapes that they had in this book but I saw nothing but girls in the book that is why I did not get wise. I could had never imagined that they were supposed to be boys but anyway if the public think that they have nothing but hardened criminals in prison they are wrong as today there is more boy-girls in prison than there are hardened criminals. I'll tell you one more story and then I will stop. I want to tell a story about a nurse in the prison hospital and he was an inmate. I became a friend of his because I was introduced to him as he could do a lot of favors for me. I hear a lot of talk going around in the prison and no one wants to tell me anything until I asked one of the guys what was it all about so this guy told me that some guy went in the hole and this guy sent a note to Vito Genovese asking Vito Genovese to take care of his girl while he is in the hole. Gee I asked who is this nut. Vito must be steaming. The guy said that Vito is furious. When I found out who it was and why he went in the hole - a hole is a dungeon - I almost flipped. Here is what this inmate nurse did. He used to give needles to inmates for anything that an inmate may need a needle for. Now he sees a guy on the line that is trying to make his girl in the yard he knew all about it because the girl told him. The way I understand it the nurse try to give this fellow a needle that would kill him instead the needle sent the guy into convulsions for a couple of hours

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Naturally the nurse was put in a dungeon and all the talk got around. Now while he is in the dungeon he wrote the note to Vito. The idea was that if this note was found it would put Vito in a terrible fix that is why Vito was furious. Now I happened to go to the hospital and I ran into this guy and he asked me for a few cigarettes and I gave him what cigarettes I had in my pocket and then I told him what is the matter with you are you crazy you sent a note to Vito. Gee if they caught that note you would let the authorities think that Vito is a pimp. He said the note was not for Vito. He said the guy that gave Vito the note put Vito's name on it so that he, the nurse, would get in trouble with Vito because the guy was jealous because whenever Vito wanted anything he would send for me and this guy used to get jealous. Well I said does Vito know what you are telling me and the nurse said that he sent word to Vito and Vito does not believe it. Well I wish him luck and the last thing I heard was that the nurse was sent to Alcatraz and the Government was being sued and I don't know what ever happened. Of course the Government was being sued by the inmate people that got the wrong needle. I said enough about girls and there are plenty of murders because of these girls.

Now I'll go back to my regular routine in Atlanta as I said that I worked in the Green House and the kid used to bring flowers to Frank and now this kid went home and I started to bring flowers to both Frank and Joe Beck but I did not sneak them. I used to ask the guard if I could have some flowers and he would tell me OK. It was once a week and I did not want to get in trouble for such a small

- 1013 -

thing. Frank used to tell me how come the kid used to make it look like a deal. Hey Frank I would say don't you know that every little thing that these guys do for you they are looking for something in return. This kid was asking me to talk to you about you getting some credit for him in New Orleans for some jukeboxes and I used to humor him along so that he would bring you some flowers and I never told you anything. I did not want to tell Frank that I ran the kid out of my cell. I won't know how to tell him as I never experienced anything like I told you about the book. Well Frank started to talk to me and he told me why don't I tell Vito what I know about Tony Bender and I told Frank that I do not want to mix in between these two guys as they been together for such a long time that if anyone gets in between them the third party would be the fall guy so Frank did not say anything. I was walking with Vito one day and I told him that I felt that I was kept under observation all through the years that I was downtown. I did not tell it to him in plain words but I was talking around the bush. In fact I was blaming Tony Bender but I knew that the only thing Tony Bender was doing was taking orders as to how to treat me and I made him understand that I lost everyone that I ever brought down to Tony. How I kept away from friends that I had in Brooklyn and in Newark, N.J., for fear that I would get a rap of trying to make up a mob, I was afraid to make friends with guys in New York that belonged to other outfits. I was going around the bush and I was telling him that in 1930 I thought that we

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did a good thing when we fought Joe the Boss as we made the road clear for Charlie Lucky and Vito. I thought that we were appreciated and I thought that I was going to get something to do after I went from the old mob to Vito's crew. When I saw that there was nothing doing downtown I did not come down there unless I was called - then they wanted to know why we never came downtown. I say we because there was another guy that felt the same way and another thing I told him that Tony did things to discourage me from coming down. I told the old man, Gee I made a mistake by calling him an old man if he would hear someone call him an old man he would be angry for a whole day. I tried to tell him that the young kids call me an old man and I was about nine years younger than he was. I was the sorrier guy for telling him. I did not mean anything. I never had anyone call me an old man on the outside but in jail if a guy is in his 40's the younger inmates call you Pop. They don't mean anything by it. I had the same experience in Sing Sing. I used to call the older inmates Pop it is a little respect that the younger try to give an older fellow at least that is what they think and I agree with them. Vito had not done time in any big prison so he was not used to it. One time a southerner came over as Vito and I was sitting on a bench and this southerner told Vito that he read a story about him in a book and he told Vito that he looked like an old man. Gee if there was a hole on that spot I would had went in it. Vito did not say anything and I

- 1015 -

did not dare look at him or dare say anything but one could tell that this fellow did not mean anything. Nothing was said about it. Now Vito is telling me that he has retired Tony Bender and he replaced him with another member. I did not say anything because I was stung. He noticed that I was surprised and he went on to tell me who he put in Tony Bender's place. He said that he put Dom the Sailor in charge. Again I looked and he said to me, Hey what are you looking at the way I put Tony Bender there and Tony did not know anything about our life but he learned and so would Dom the Sailor. No I said I was not thinking about that at all. I was thinking of Dom the Sailor. I was thinking how he was coming to my restaurant he had not come there before and all of a sudden he started to come to the Lido. Vito said I sent him there and I said why didn't you let him tell me that you sent him there if he would had told me that you sent him there I would had taken the hint but the way he went at it I felt like throwing him out of the Lido. He asked me why. Well if Dom was there and he wanted me to know that he Dom was in your corner and he wanted me to know how I felt about it then why did he ask me how is your buddy and the guy that he Dom asked for was having trouble with you so I had to play dumb as I did not trust Dom anymore after he passed that crack. I see Vito said. He Vito said he should had sent Tommy Rye. Well I said Tommy Rye I know a long time it would had been different so you see I thought that Dom the Sailor came to my restaurant to spy on me. Vito asked me why didn't I go to his house

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after all you are my coupe. "Coupe" means that he Vito stood up for me at my wedding in 1932. I told him after what he done in the office at the time when he called Tony and I a couple of names I would never go to his house. I told him if he wants any attention from me he must encourage me or he would not see me at all. I can't help it that is the way I am. I can’t change even if you make me a king. I'll have all the respect in the world for you but I feel I earned my respect and if I must fight for my respect I would fight. He Vito asked me why I play handball. Gee Vito I told him there is no reason why I play handball. I was in Sing Sing and before I went to Sing Sing I was in the New York Catholic Protectory and that is all I did was play handball, baseball and all kinds of sports. All of a sudden I must explain why I play handball. I knew why it bothered them I was just playing dumb. They figured by me playing handball there is no time for me to be talking to his spies like Johnnie Dio or Joe Beck or amy of them for that matter. I used to walk around like a two year old and it bothered them. There were so many guys playing handball and no one said anything about them everything that I did bothered them. I could understand but I would not give them the satisfaction of asking them why it bothers them because I played handball. I was already noticing that he was very close with Johnnie Dio and the rest of the members everyone had a funny look on their faces. I knew that Vito did not like Big John and Big John was in the same crew as was Johnnie Dio even though Dio was with Big John Dio

- 1017 -

could be bought for a penny by Vito. Anyone can tell you that is why it was hard for me everyone jumped at his feet and I stood on my ground made it hard for me. It looked as though I was a lost sheep in the prison. I noticed all this going on but I did not let them understand that I notice they looked like a bunch of dogs. Everyone that I spoke to would tell me what Vito was going to do for them. I would just walk away when they talked in that style. Gee I have seen dogs in my life but never did I see dogs that would beat the ones that I saw in Atlanta. They used to hog all the food and Dio would come over and say Gee I had some sandwich today I had this and I had that. He had a yellow face it was so false that it used to go out of shape he could not keep a straight face on his traitor's face. I knew that Johnnie was hoping that Vito would promote him on the outside even though that Dio was not in our outfit. Vito had control of the outfit where Dio was. I want to explain a little of the life I had on the outside with these same guys that I am talking about. If I met Johnnie Dio on the outside which I did I won't have a conversation with him no more than five minutes. His uncle yes, but Dio was a phony and if I had to die by his hands I would live for ever and this goes for all of them in Atlanta except Joe Beck. I must tell the truth and there was at least twenty of them in Atlanta. I mean members there was all told about ninety New Yorkers in Atlanta. Now I don't mean that I would be afraid of Joe Beck. I'm only trying to tell you

- 1018 -

what kind of members we had in Atlanta they would turn on you without just -- they were like cattle. None of them knew how smart I was only Vito. They thought that I was just another member like them. When I went on T.V. and I told how close I was with the big ones one time or another they must had been shocked. Most of them were new members and they did not know anything about our life. I would not dare to tell anyone anything of what I knew they would had thought that I was making up stories and that is what Vito was doing to me. He knew that it would hurt me but I showed him that I did not care for him and all of Atlanta. Once I told Vito that I wanted to talk to him and he asked me if it was about anyone in the joint. I answered him in this style. I told him that there ain't a guy in this joint that I would talk to you about. I won't make them that important and to my surprise he agreed with me. I wanted to talk about my own affairs. It was about my machines, No matter how many times I talked to him about it I was always being stalled I want to explain why I had to talk to him he was the Boss and as a rule he must protect my interest that is the only thing that we get out of the Cosa Nostra and if we don't get this much protection then there is no need of belonging to any mob. It just happened that he was in jail at the same place that I was if he was not in jail then I would have to send word to him wherever he was. One time he told me that my family is telling me lots of stories, I told him as far as my family is concerned they are not telling me anything all I know is that they

- 1019 -

are not getting any money and my family does not want to know me. They think that I gave my machines to my nephew as my nephew told them I owed him money and I gave him the machines and called it even. It is a lie I told Vito my nephew owed me money. I can't do time with this on my mind. I'll go crazy. I told him why should my family think that I am a dog how can I go on my family just won't talk about the machines. He would listen and tell me that he would take care of it as I am talking to him I was noticing his expression as one time a guy told me that when Vito lies he puts on a straight face. Gee I thought to myself how right that fellow was. Well one can imagine what I was going through knowing my family was being cheated and I could not do anything about it and especially from my own nephew. Boy I said to someone when a guy does time he don't want to do anything when he gets out only rob his friends or family. Well Vito told me that I should not knock my nephew. I said if I don't get any satisfaction I'll yell all over the prison. I figured that the fellow that I was talking to ran over and told Vito what I said. Now I started to tell everyone that wanted to know. I see it is about seven or eight months now and nothing is happening so by this time I am getting desperate and I am starting to ignore Vito. I am passing him up when I meet him and by me doing such a thing I would be hurting his ego. Now the second Fourth of July comes around and the Washington Post had a new indictment

- 1020 -

coming up and there are twenty-four names in the indictment and my name is not one of them. Everyone was talking about it. About three or four were mentioned that were in the prison. The next day Charlie Beck comes in my cell, but he did not come in the cell he was reading to me from the outside of the bars. His name was taken out of the indictment and my name was put in. He seemed very happy to read it to me as he was reading it I did not show any sign of worry. I did not want to give him the satisfaction. Then he told me that Frank and Vito would be at the Bocci court and they are going to read the papers to me. He said that I should not tell them that he Charlie Beck, which is a brother of the double crosser Joe Beck, had already read the papers to me. After Charlie left my cell I was thinking of how much satisfaction Vito gives these punks. Well that night I went into the yard and I found the Bosses waiting for me with the papers in another guy's hands. They don't even read it themselves. They make another guy read it out loud. When the guy got through reading the papers Vito asked me what do I know about the indictment. I asked him what did he know about his own indictment. He did not answer me but just looked and I was looking. Then he asked me to take a talk with him and we went walking and he asked me what shall he do with the machines. I told him that I need a lawyer and again I told him that I want to sell. He said that I will find the money in New York when I get to West Street I said this is no time to fool around with money because I don't care how much I know

- 1021 -

or even if I don’t know anything about this indictment they, the agents, would make it their business to find something even though I am here about fifteen months. Don't worry he said I will see to it that you get your money for the machines. Well I did not go down right away but within a week there was three of us on the way to New York and when I got there the first guy that I met was Johnnie Dio and he introduced me to one of the guys that was in the indictment as he could not make bail because he had a deportation warrant against him. I forget his nickname the fellow that Johnnie introduced me but I do remember his right - I'll try and spell it right - Manero. He was one of the boys but belonged in a different outfit. The rest of the guys were out on bail. Well Johnnie said to me that he was sorry to see me down on another case. He himself was at West Street for another case. I don't remember what it was for but he was there. I forgot to mention that Vito told me not to plea guilty. When one comes down on another case, nine out of ten he gets no more time but the king told me not to plead guilty so I did not even though I did not know anything about it. I won't care if I had my way the first good judge that I would see I would plead guilty. What I mean by a good judge is that there are only about two judges that give out more time when a guy is doing fifteen years on one case and then he comes down with another. I went before the judge and he the judge wanted to give me a government lawyer. I told him that I did not want a government lawyer as I would

- 1022 -

get my own lawyer and he told me OK. Now I was waiting for my nephew to come and see me but he never came so I got permission to make a phone call and I called him up. When I got him on the phone the first thing that I asked him was what happened to the machines why don't he want to give any money to my family and he told me gee you gave me the machines and he was laughing. I told him that's what you told my family and he was laughing all the time. I asked him what is it that you are doing and why you did sometime and now you want to take everything that I left my family and he asked me if I have a lawyer. I told him you know I haven't a lawyer. I tried to get him to come and see me he would promise me but would never come down. Then he asked me about a girl that I knew and when I told him that I knew that he was in her company he was shocked that I knew. I told him you come home with the intention of taking everything that I left behind. He laughed again and then he asked me how do I pull with Tony Bender. I told him that I pull OK with Tony. Why then he said maybe he Tony can get the machines back for you. Well I need not say how I felt as anyone can understand. Then I asked him did I have anything to do with your case or did you ever work for me. He said no. Then why did you tell Frank Costello when you were in Atlanta that you worked for me. He did not answer. I told him you think they won't find out and do you think you can live doing that kind of stuff you

- 1023 -

think that this is a Boys’ Club. They would catch up with you. Then he told me that I told Vito about the machines. I said did I lie don't they belong to me and he said that not even Vito can get them for you because I told that you owe me money. Then I asked him if he lost his mind and he said maybe. I asked him are you coming down to see me and he said yes tomorrow and he never came. He was making a fool out of me. Then I told him that I expect Frank Costello to come at West Street because he is about to come home and he owes about ten days to the city prison for contempt and he has to go and finish up that ten days. My wife comes and sees me and she is very cold. She does not say anything and I don't blame her. The only thing that she told me was that the kid Solly who was taking care of the machines had half of the route sold for 11 thousand dollars and the kid had already received a deposit on the machines and the kid did not want to turn over the machines to my nephew but my nephew went to my house and he told my wife that he would build up the route and my wife told him I have half of the machines sold and if Joe wants to give them to you it is OK with me and she told Solly to sign over the machines to Fiore my nephew and when I call on the phone again I don't get Fiore and my sister gets on the phone and I tell her is that nice what your son is doing. What did my wife ever do to him and she my sister told me that every week he Fiore makes a check for some woman but she did not know who the woman was. I told her he is doing it and cashing the check

- 1024 -

himself to show the boys that he is taking care of my hone. She said that she can't believe it and I asked her who is the girl or what is her name and she said Carol. When I heard the name I asked her is that my wife's name. No she said then he shows me another check and it was your wife’s name. For how much I asked and she said twenty dollars. Yes that is right that’s all he sent her because my wife did not have a penny and my wife does not want to know me or any of our family. She think that we are all in on this and my sister said yes she heard the same thing so you see what I mean. Then she said what do you want me to do he is home right now and I can't wake him he is so drunk oh I said he started to drink again. Well I'll be I said I thought that he got some sense in him since he done some time. You see what I mean no one could talk to him. Well if anyone can feel the way I felt I don't know it was not for myself that I was worrying about it was for my family and for my own self-respect. I don't do things in that style. I can never do any time in peace. How can I and from my own nephew and I did so much for him, He owed me I'll say about ten thousand dollars and he tells the outside world that I owe him money. My sister told me that her daughter was home and would I like to say hello and I said put her on. She did not want to get on the phone. She said for what Fiore is doing to him and his wife I ain't got the nerve to talk to him. One guy got arrested from the neighborhood and he came to West Street and this fellow told another guy what this guy's nephew is doing to this

- 1025 -

guy's family, meaning me, is unbelievable and what Fiore is saying about his uncle just to keep the jukeboxes is disgraceful. Boy I don't know how this guy can take it and he the fellow that was doing the talking knew what I did for my nephew. I told my nephew to go and see a certain guy and he would collect two thousand dollars and please give it to my wife. He collected the money and he did not give a penny to my wife. Then he goes over to the wife and he wanted to know if my wife knew anyone that owed any money to Joe, meaning me. My wife was fed up by this time and she ran him our of the house and he left the house laughing. From this treatment my wife got sick and she may die any day. She is got a sickness that is called dropsy. It is water in the body and she may drown in her sleep any day. I must let the world know how this boy treated his uncle or I won't feel good and he was the cause of my wife not wanting to know me any more and I don't blame her. I never write to her or anyone else in the family and I wish them all the luck in the world. Time is running out and I still ain't got a lawyer and now Frank Costello comes to West Street and I sit down and I have a talk with him and he was acting cold. One of the guys that I was locked with wanted to give Frank a kicking around for the way he was acting. I told the guy that if he did a thing of that kind he would ruin me and that is now I call him down. I tell Frank that as a former boss is it fair for what they are doing to my family regardless of what they have against me. He said that he would try and

- 1026 -

see what he can do he was so anxious to get away from me that I felt like hitting him right in the mouth, Then he told me that the old man is mad at me. I got mad and I said something that I cannot print and he Frank walked away and he said again I'll see what I can do. Well he Frank went out of West Street and that was the last I heard. I called up my nephew again and he told me that Frank asked about him Fiore but then Frank never came around or sent for him. Well I knew that Frank did not have much to say so I forgave Frank, after all he had his own troubles. He was once the boss now he must be under Tommy Rye and Tommy Rye is just a boy compared to Frank so he is got his own troubles. How do I know that Frank Costello is under Tommy Rye because Vito told me in Atlanta. I asked him one time that was when I went back to Atlanta and that was when he told me he put it in this style he said Frank is on the side and is under Tommy Rye being under Tommy Rye is just like being under Vito. Now he feels that the guy is going to belong to him and they say they ain't power crazy. Frank did not treat him in that style when he was the boss. Well I say this, Frank with all his money is a fool. He should find a fine country and go and live there with all his money. He is crazy to be hanging around especially be under Tommy Rye that is the Vito operates. He loves to belittle someone, anyone - the real greaseball style.

- 1027 -

Well I meet some boys at West Street and they are with Joe Gallo but I knew that when I saw Frank Costello walk around with one of the main guys I figured that Frank is going to talk to this guy and he is going to pull this guy away from Joe Gallo. I can tell the way Frank was looking at me. I told one of the main guy's friend that I'll bet that after your friend gets out your friend would pull away from Joe Gallo. This guy said that I was wrong. OK I told him we will see who is wrong. Well anyway, I asked these fellows what is the trouble and what started it. They told me that Joe Profaci was taxing them too much money. I did not understand at first I was so dumbfounded. Gee Joe Profaci is the guy that used to preach to me in 1930 about Joe the Boss that used to do that kind of stuff now he is doing it. Well fellows I said you guys are within your rights. I don’t blame you at all. I asked one of them how much did he tax you. At one time he said eighteen hundred dollars. Oh I said where is this going on and he said in Brooklyn. Well I said I am a good friend of Joe Profaci but in this case he is out of order. I don't know what to say. One of the guys I did not know in fact I did not know any of them, I would call him Henry I don't want to mention any names as everything is nice and peaceful at this writing and I don't want to make any trouble it would mean blood. Henry told the rest of them to pay attention to Joe, meaning I. He knows what he is talking about. He, Joe, don't know it but I know a lot of his friends one guy passed a crack and he

- 1028 -

was saying that Joe Profaci was bragging that in 1930 I killed their fathers and now I am going to kill their sons and he was saying it as though that Joe Profaci is full of talk. I looked and I said no he is not full of talk he is a bad actor. I said talking about one thing is something but don't take the guy cheap he will kill you all I told them and Henry answered and said to me teil them Joe Tell them, they think that Joe Profaci is a phony. Yes he is a phony I said that is why he is the boss for thirty years and is a millionaire. Yes he is a phony just be careful I warned them. Now most of these guys get out on bail and old man Gallo comes in for deportation. I did not know him but I was hearing so many stories that the boys on West Street were making me sick. One guy would come over and he would say the old man said this and the old man said that so I went upstairs and I asked for the old man and I asked for his son. Then I told him to keep his mouth shut as they are talking all over the place. The next guy that comes over to you walk away on him as there are nothing but troubles makers in this joint. He asked me my name and I told him and he said that he would tell his son and he thanked me and I asked him if he needed anything and he said that he did not and I told him where he could find me if he needed me as I was always locked up because if one has more than fifteen years they keep him locked up all the time but they gave us TV from one o'clock in the afternoon until

- 1029 -

three-thirty in the afternoon and when it was not raining we got one hour on the roof. The other fellows were out from six-thirty in the morning till ten-thirty at night. When I went on the roof it was the chance to see Joe Gallo's father one day I was going on the roof and who do I spot I see the Agueci brothers. They were the guys that I met in Canada. I almost flipped although I knew that they were in the indictment. I did not say anything I just looked and they looked at me. They had just come in from Canada one of them was not there because he was in Canada doing eighteen month for an assault on one of the natives in Canada. I knew the next day they would be downstairs because when a new man comes in he would stay on the third floor for one night and the next day he would come to the second floor. The next day they bring Vito Agueci and his brother Albert. They put Albert Agueci in my cell and I greeted him very friendly and the first thing that he told me that I kept my word that I did not show up in New York the day that I was supposed to go and meet Al Newman in the court building. Well I told him how did he like to see me in the same case as he was. He said that he was shocked when he heard it. Then I asked him if he found out that I had received fifteen years instead of five the way Tony Bender had told him the night that Tony called me at Abert Agueci's house. I asked him if he knew anything about this case that we are in together. He said that he did not know anything so I did not

- 1030 -

ask him any more. He said that he expected to get out on bail in a couple of days and when a couple of days passed and he did not get out he started to get nervous. Well I was watching him weakening but I did not let him know that I notice. His brother Vito I did not bother with at all he Albert one day he told me in front of Vito, Joe if I should get out on bail don't tell or talk abouc anything with my brother Vito. Before I had a chance to say anything Vito answered and he told his brother why am I going to hurt Joe he never done me anything and Albert spoke again and he told me in front of Vito, Joe do you know what he used to do when we were kids if I had a dime and he Vito did not have a penny he would make up a store and my father would take the dime off me and then give me a beating and while I was getting a beating Vito would be laughing. When I heard that story I said to myself I'll stay away from this guy. Then Albert told me that if he makes up a story against me or you in this life that we are in we will be death ducks no one would be able to help us so remember it Joe make sure because you may have some money and if he ain't got it God help you. Of course Albert told me all about his brother because Albert and I were starting to tell stories to one another, What Albert really meant was don't do the same thing with him. I took the hint right away that was the end of Vito Agueci as far as I was concerned. Well now it is about a month and Albert is still in jail, he started to send out

- 1031 -

messages to someone down town and when he was not getting a reply he would blow his top. I used to tell him that it is bad to send a message to anyone if his boss would find out he Vito and all of them will be in a jam he was and I could see by talking to him I knew so much compared to him. He knew it to. Now he wanted me to send a message to one of the big boys. I asked him if he was crazy do you want those people to think that I know you from the outside. Now he was mad and he was starting to tell me all about the deal that they had concerning this case. He said that he felt sorry that I got involved and I asked him if they were fooling around while I was in Canada and he swore that they were not doing anything while I was there. He said they started it about four months after I was there and he told me that he did not make any money. The proof is thay I can't get out on bail the reason why it was tough for him to get out on bail was because he [missing word] cash for his bond because he came from a different country and I could not make him understand what it was all about. All this time that I was hanging out with Albert I did not bother with his brother Vito. He Albert told me that if he gets out he is going to shake down a couple of the jew boys in Buffalo and then he was going to take off and go to Italy. I told him from the way you are carrying on you better take off now. He was getting to understand and now he blows his top and he tells me, hey Joe the people that I am

- 1032 -

bothering are my partners. Gee I told him don't say this out loud and I asked him if Vito his brother knows all this he said yes but he had nothing to do with the deal. The only thing that his brother Vito did was go to Italy as they had some trouble and he sent his brother so that his brother could earn some money, Oh boy I told him and he got involved just for going to Italk to talk to someone. He said yes. Anyway I am talking about him how did I get involved. He shook his head and then he remembered Ralph Wagner and he asked me what happened to him and why did he run away from the motel. I told him just the way we thought he was the one who gave me up in the trailer camp but don't talk about it I told him because the old man is in Atlanta and he is got Wagner in his cell and I am figuring that the kid Ralph is telling the old man that he was with me with the little junk trade that he Ralph and I had and he is going to put me in trouble with the old man. I am almost sure he would do it to cover up his own sins. He Ralph is afraid that I know something and he wants to beat me to the punch, Albert agreed and he remembered how Ralph acted in the garage that night. I told him when I got back to New York the kid Solly told me how Ralph Wagner told him that he ran away on me from the motel in Canada he shows all the signs of giving me up at the trailer camp in Conn. and besides the agents was telling me how Ralph was drunk and he wanted his boss Gaf to OK him to cross the border. Albert stood

- 1033 -

there and looked stunned and I'll bet my shirt I told Albert that he is in Atlanta telling Vito Genovese some funny stories, Albert said that he would talk to Vito Genovese. I told Albert that the best thing for him to do is forget about it and let the old man do as he sees fit. I ain't going to worry if he wants to listen to punks I got enough trouble I ain't even got a lawyer yet I told him and then he told me that when he asked Tony Bender after I went away how much time did I get and Tony told him that I got fifteen years and Albert told Tony Bender Gee you said five years when you spoke to me on the phone and Tony answered who told him to come in I only told him what I was told so I told Albert if he remembered how I did not want to come in and Albert told me why do you think that I asked how much did you get. Well let's forget about it now only I got fifteen years but now I am involved in this case just for coming out there for a few days. I just don't care about anything. Now these others guys ran away and I wish them all the luck in the world. What was I going to say I told Albert the payoff is I am afraid that they are going to make me the big guy in this case because all the main guys jumped their bails and not that I care but the heat is going to be on me. Of course I must tell the readers that we were twenty in the indictment and three ran away, They jumped one hundred and fifteen thousand dollars bail between them and there was no main guy left in the case and I was sure they are going to make me the main guy now. Albert is bothering me to help him get out on

- 1034 -

bail. I asked him if he is crazy I ran away on my bondsman how can I call him for you he would take a fit and besides the three guys that jumped their bail were bailed out from the same bondsman so you see I told Albert I still did not get the whole story from him. He was telling me a little at a time but I was not interested, The guy that Johnnie Dio introduced me got out and when he did he was so excited that he did not even come and say goodbuye to me so who cares about anyone, everyone is out for himself. So I like to go and plead guilty and get out of here but the king Vito Genovese told me not to plead guilty so I figured if I do plead then he would think that I am guilty. I told Albert with a good lawyer I would beat this case. Then Albert asked me why do you want to plead guilty. I told him that there is only two judges that give extra time in Foley Square and before we will get finished the D.A. would see to it that we get one of those judges - I'll bet on it but Albert made me talk but I could see that he did not understand a word that I was saying because Albert and his brother were greaseballs, They did not talk good English. Albert was fair but his brother Vito did not talk at all. Albert told me that he was going to night school that is why he knew more than his brother. I was hoping that he would get out on bail, he was making me tired all day long I would have to hear about being bailed out. I told him time and again that he was making trouble for himseif by sending out word here and there. I told him also not to be talking to the boys in the jail. I was

- 1035 -

asked time and again who is this fellow. I would tell them that I did not know him from the outside only met him in jail and he is in the same case as I am and I did not know who he knows and I don't know what it is all about. Especially one guy on West Street he wanted to know everyone's business and I always thought that he was a spy for the mob. Well what do you know, Albert gets bailed out. The payoff was that I was not even there when he gets bailed out I had to go to court that day. After Albert got bailed out his brother Vito started to be ready to get out on bail but there was no bail for Vito. In about five weeks we hear that Albert got killed somewhere in Buffalo but it did not come on the air or T.V. yet. I don't know or I don't remember how this guy found out but he wanted me to tell his brother Vito. I won't tell his brother. I said let him hear it on the air or T.V. why should I bring such bad news to someone. Vito is waiting for his brother to bail him out and you want me to tell him that his brother got killed are you crazy. You go and tell him I told the guy and when you do I'll walk away so the guy came over to our cell after we were locked up for the night. This guy came over to the cell and he told Vito in Italian that his brother was killed a few days ago and they found his body somewhere in the outskirts of Buffalo and that his body was ail burned and they had to cut off one of his fingers to find out who he was. Abour one hour later it came on the air. This was the second

- 1036 -

guy killed in this case, They had killed another guy just a few weeks before and no one knew this other guy and he was a colored man so no one knew him and no one was interested but Albert was a member so everyone noticed it. Some of the outsiders were passing remarks what kind of a mob is this a guy gets arrested and the mob gets him out on bail so that they can kill him. Everyone was cursing Vito Genovese because he is the one who enforced the law if any member gets into trouble for junk he will be in trouble so guys figured it is bad enough that the law gets you then one must answer the mob why don't they the mob give them something - after all they are hungry that was the reaction of the outside people or inmates on West Street when the news of Albert's death came on the radio they were cursing the bosses out loud. Vito went and lay on his cot and did not eat for three days. The judge raised Vito's bail from fifteen thousand dollars to fifty thousand dollars. Vito did not lose any sleep by the bail being raised he put up a phony hell but anyone could see that Vito hoped that he won't be bailed out he is so yellow it ain't not even funny. One day I told him that he is going out on bail I thought that he was going to faint all greaseballs are actors and Vito beat them all - the biggest phony I ever met. After Albert went I did not want any part of Vito and I made him know it by staying away from him. He used to get so mad because I was staying away from him - I was staying away from him

- 1037 -

because he told me that I must introduce him to Vito Genovese when we go to Atlanta. He said to me I should not worry that he won't say anything about me. I heard enough I told him to find someone else to introduce you to Vito Genovese and what can you say about me I asked him. He said nothing. Then why did you say that I should not worry. Well he said I won't make up any stories about you. I got so mad that I told him to get away from me before I lose my head. He said you don't understand they killed my brother and I asked him what is Vito Genovese going to do for you - get even for you or are you going to tell him about your boss. What do you think your boss in Buffalo worries about Vito Genovese you sound like a dog I told him from now on stay away from me. I told him in the first place I warned your brother not to send out word to anyone and it did not do him any good did it? Well Vito Agueci said that he must avenge his brother's death and I told him ain't I got my own trouble. You think Vito Genovese ain't going to question me about this case. What am I supposed to do go and tell him Vito Genovese that you and the rest of the guys made all the money in this case and when things get a little hot you yell like mad. Go away I told him. I'm going to get out of this cell like the way you told me that. I should not worry you won't say anything about me. I just say that I could not stand the guy any more after he made the statement he did. From then on it was not even a

- 1038 -

Hello I just passed him by. Once he came over to me and he told me that he would get someone else to introduce him to Vito Genovese. I told him that I did not care what he does only make sure that he don't tell any lies about me. He said that he would tell Vito Genovese the truth. I asked him if he was going to tell Vito Genovese about his boss in Buffalo. He said that he was. I must explain to the reader what this is all about the fact is that there is a law that members are not supposed to fool around with junk it is a death sentence. A member is caught dealing with junk and Albert and Vito Agueci claim that their boss in Buffalo was a partner of theirs and the guy in Buffalo is a personal friend of mine and I did not know what it was all about. I was innocent of all their doings. I was in jail when they were out on the street doing business now they get into trouble not alone that I am involved for reasons that I would explain as I would be writing this story. This guy Vito Agueci wants me to go to Atlanta and tell Vito Genovese all about the other fellows. I could not see it I wanted to mind my own business. Frank Costello already had told me in Atlanta why don't I tell Vito Genovese all I know about Tony Bender and if I do I would get all the help that I need. I did not want to tell Frank Costello if there is anyone who knows what Tony Bender is doing on the outside it is Vito Genovese, I did not so anything with Tony Bender so how can I tell Vito Genovese anything I would be

- 1039 -

lying. I know how I feel. I told Frank when I heard that my nephew told you that he was working for me and I ain't going to do to others as what was done to me any cost. Frank looked at me and said Fiore your nephew did not work for you. Hey Frank I told him this thing can be checked. What is this stuff? A guy goes crazy and says something and everyone believed him. Well I am different and I don't want any help if I got to tell phony stories. Everyone knows that Tony Bender and I don't get along and still I won't do it because as I said I wouid be lying. Frank raised his arms and he walked away. Well Fiore gets me a lawyer and I find out that he made a collection for the money. We go to trial and the evidence against me was all frame. We get the statement that the witness made when he first got arrested in Westchester County and the lawyer read it to the jury and it went like this - What did Valachi have to do in this deal - and the witness said that Valachi had nothing to do in this case. I would explain how this witness got arrested. The name of this witness was Solly - he and another man were arrested and they were caught with a lot of narcotics and they named about two hundred other guys - they were arrested by the State when the narcotics agents took over one of the agents who had arrested me in the first case got a bright idea he made Solly put me in the indictment because he was mad at me. He blamed me for losing his promotion because I had disappointed him in a plot

- 1040 -

which I have already mentioned in this story. He wanted me to put a lot of narcotics in an apartment and then he would find the narcotics and make a name for himself that was the reason why he had me put in the second case of which I received another twenty years. He came to see me on West Street and at first he said that he had nothing to do with me being put in this new indictment. I told him that he and his boss George Gaffney are the biggest frame artists in the country and I don't want to see you again. He threatened me by putting me in a third indictment. This Agent's name is Frank Savaggie. I want everyone to know his name in case you ever read about him you would know what a frame artist he is. I got plenty more to say about Frank Savaggie and his boss George Gaffney. He told me that he got a telegram from Washington and he was reprimanded. You see what I mean I told him it was supposed to be between you and me and now you tell me that you got hell from Washington. Right there you are a phony - how come Washington knew about it. He could not talk when I told him about Washington. Well he said can I help it if some people paid twenty-five thousand dollars to take Charlie Beck out of the indictment and put you in it. I told him that he was a liar and you come and see me to put me in trouble you even walk me slowly to the D.A. office to make it appear that I am giving you some information. He said to me that his uncle taught him the trick and besides

- 1041 -

I found out that you would make the fifteen years and then you would come after me. At first I thought that you would die in jail but I found out that you were in good health and I want to make sure that you don't come out that is why I put you in the new indictment. I asked him how come you name me together with Ralph Wagner and Ralph is not in the indictment, not that I want you to put hin in but how come can you explain it? He said, yes, Ralph is Gaffney's man and he did not want him in the indictment. What is Gaf in love with Ralph I asked him or was it because he gave me up in Conn. He said you got to ask Gaffney about it I don’t know anything because Ralph used to call Gaffney and Ralph called Gaffney even when he was in Texas. Well I went about my business and I went back to West Street. All of a sudden I hear that the other three guys got picked up in Spain. I go back to my cell and I stay there and I started to think Vito Agueci tried to talk to me and I did not want to talk to him at all. The agents put it in Vito Agueci's head that the boys who went on the lam killed his brother. Vito did not need anyone to tell him who had a hand in killing his brother he knew better that anyone who had a hand in killing his brother because he himself was in the same boots as was his brother. What Vito was trying to do was make friends because he was a stranger in this country but he did not know that it was the worse thing to do. Now he is worrying about these guys coming back from Spain

- 1042 -

and that was most of the reasons why I did not want to bother with Vito I figured I had nothing to do with it in the profit that they were making so why should I mix in their troubles. I knew that Vito Genovese would want to know everything when I would get back to Atlanta so I did not want Vito Agueci to be talking about the case at the trial I saw a wise guy sit in court all day throughout the trial. I could not tell anyone because there was no one there left to tell all of my friends were not on trial. I was on trial with all the non-members and the stuff that I heard at the trial was sickening. This fellow Solly was working for two of the guys that got picked up in Spain. Solly was their workman. According to the evidence Solly had got together with two of the defendants and they were cheating. How they were cheating - I'll tell you. There was two kids that I knew from the Bronx, their names were Sonny and Parky. Sonny and Parky got together with Solly everytime that Solly picked up ten kilo of junk. He would, together with Sonny and Parky, take five ounces of junk out of every kilo and replace it with five ounces of flour. Ten kilos meant fifty ounces of pure junk. Sometimes, according to the trial Solly picked up fifteen kilos of junk it would had brought seventy-five ounces of junk. Then they would put more flour in the seventy-five ounces and sell it for twenty-seven hundred dollars a quarter kilo - so for one kilo they were getting four times twenty-seven hundred. So Sonny, Parky and

- 1043 -

Solly were having a tea party. The proof was that at the trial it was brought out that Solly had given a connection 12 thousand dollars for a deposit on ten kilos of junk unknown to his bosses and when Solly got arrested he was found to have about thirty-three thousand dollars but in court only twenty-one thousand dollars appeared and Sonny and Parky were wondering where the balance of the cash went to so they came to the conclusion that the raiders took part of the money. Now there was another thing to worry about. Sonny and Parky were worrying what are the boys going to say when they get back from Spain when the boys would come back and find out how they have been robbed and Sonny and Parky knew the bosses. They were trying to talk to me. Oh no I did not want any part of it. I don't want to know anything I told them all I know is that I am mixed up in this deal for no reason at all and I looked at Parky and I said to him you are the guy that introduced Solly to me. You told me that he worked on ships and he could had gotten me a passport - that is a fine passport that he got me he put me in this case. Something is wrong Porky said. I said I know what's wrong the agents told Solly to put me in the indictment I'm sure it was not Solly's doings. He had enough guys to put in the indictment he did not need me so it had to be the agents. Anyway I know what agent put me in so Sonny said he knew to so I asked him who did he think and he told me Frank Savaggie. Why I asked him did he tell you anything. Solly, Parky and Sonny all knew this agent was not

- 1044 -

satisfied that I was doing fifteen years. He Frank wanted me to get another twenty years and he Frank did not care how he was going to do it. At this time we had been found guilty and we were put off for sentencing for about two months before we got found guilty we were trying to put off the trial because it was near Christmas and the judge refused and by the time we finished the trial it was about a week before Christmas that was why we were put off for two months for sentencing. Now we would have plenty of time to see the other three guys before we would be shipped to prison. Well the three other guys came back from Spain and none of them were put into my cell but we met when we all went to the roof or the T.V. One of these guys was a personal friend of mine, at lease he was supposed to have been and he asked me if I knew these two guys Sonny and Parky. Gee I told him that Sonny told me that he knows you and he asked me what did I hear at the trial. I told him the best thing to do is ask the two Jews that were in our case it better for you to ask them why involve me. They know just as I know what was said at the trial or better yet get the minutes of the case and you would see for yourself what was said at the trial. I told him that I had a hard time of getting a lawyer as I told him that they took my business and he said that he would send word to Tony Bender and I told him that I don't think that Teny Bender can do anything and he asked me why I don't know I told

- 1045 -

him all I know is that I could had pleaded guilty as I faces a few good judges but I could not plead guilty because Vito Genovese told me not to plead guilty and my friend told me that he and the other two guys were hoping that I would plead guilty what could they give you. Well as I said if I could had got in touch with anyone of you guys I would had pleaded guilty but if I plead without talking to anyone I figured someone would had made a deal out of it and I told my friend that there was a racket guy sitting in the court room all throughout the trial and when the Government rested I did not see the guy any more and if that means anything to you I am telling you. I must explain to the reader what it meant for this guy sitting in the courtroom being there was a law as to not fool around with junk the mob had sent a man to sit in the courtroom and hear the evidence so that they can judge for themselves if anyone of the members in the case were guilty even though the three were not in court it made no difference their names would be mentioned just the same. If I would had known that Frank the agent started a rumor on the outside that I gave information I would had known why Vito Genovese told me not to plead guilty. He Frank told me himself that the agents put out a list on the street and they put the names that they don't like on this list. He Frank even told me the name of the kid in the Bronx that was walking around with this list. This kid was working on numbers and the agent told me that

- 1046 -

this kid once Worked for Patty Monccio and Vinnie, his name is Nickline and he picks up the numbers for K and Addo up on Burke Ave., and they used to own a bar and the name of the bar was the Burke Bar. It was right on Burke Ave. Well I did not talk to any of the other guys too much I felt that they were afraid to talk in my presence because they knew that I will be going back to Atlanta and I might say a word or two to Vito Genovese concerning the case - they were afraid that I might say something to Vito as who was guilty and who was not. Little did they know that Vito Genovese knew more than I did because he Vito was getting visits in Atlanta but why I was really sore was that I had nothing to do with Tony Bender or Vito Genovese. Now that Vito Genovese feels that Tony Bender was in on this deal and Tony left Vito out of it I'm in the middle let along I got my own troubles and I did not go or ask anyone to help me. I'm involved in their headache until this day I don't know if Tony Bender had anything to do with the deal at all. I know one thing that when Tony Bender found out how much money they got caught with Tony Bender never sent another word to West Street. I happened to overhear them talking out it. I heard one guy say Tony must be mad when he found out how much case we had when we got arrested. It was none of my business and I did not care to ask any questions. All my life I hate anyone Who tried to make me a spy and I wasn't going to start spying for Vito Genovese at any cost. Let him have the crumbs that he had in Atlanta. I talk this way

- 1047 -

because Vito had a spy in West Street. His name was Mike the Geep. He thinks that he got in right with Vito Genovese because he was spying for him. He does not know that Vito uses you and then he don't want any part of you. How do I know that Mike the Geep was a spy. Well I saw him talking to Vito Genovese in Atlanta because Mike was expecting to go to West Street for questioning and when I saw Mike the Geep come at West Street I knew right away that he was going to be a spy. One afternoon I was talking to one of the boys in the T.V. room and I was talking about Frank Costello and I was telling this fellow that I asked Frank Costello to try and get my machines back for me and the least the “old so and so" could had done was send a word to two and let me know one way or the other. Now the word that I used was "the old so and so." As I finished saying it I saw Mike the Geep coming out from behind a pole. I figured now this guy thinks that when I said the old so and so that I meant Vito Genovese. Well I could not call this spy and say, "Hey Mike I did not mean Vito Genovese I meant Frank Costello." How did I know that he told Vito Genovese? I must go a little ahead of my story. I will tell you and then I'll go back to where I was at West Street. To begin with, I did not give Mike the Geep any attention any more and I could see that he was puzzled. Vito came in the cell one night after I caught him talking to Mike the Geep and he said to me out of the sky,

- 1048 -

"Hey Joe, I used to call old men so and so." I can't say the word because it is not a nice word. Well I was in a spot and I could not say to Vito that I did not mean him that I was talking about Frank. So by this time I did not care so I just made it pass. Now Mike the Geep belongs to another outfit what can Vito do for him. I read in the papers that Mike the Geep got another ten years on the second rap that he had when he went back to West Street. Well this is the first time that I can say that I was a happy man when I heard that he got an extra ten years because I know that he Mike the Geep was almost dead when he got the first six years and now with ten more added to the six it makes it 16 years for Mike the Geep and I am almost sure that he would never live it out and they better watch him when he loses his appeal because he might try and hang himself. For this I thank Solly for giving Mike an extra ten years. That was one guy Solly you should had put in the first indictment. Thank you again Solly. Now as long as I'm talking about Mike the Geep I must tell you about a dog like Mike the Geep. Some where around 1949 or 1950 I don't remember just when there was a few words exchanged in a coffee shop. between Mike the Geep and I. Well he went and got a gun and came back in the coffee shop and he tried to shoot me but someone got in between and the commotion was soon over. Now anyone who pulls a gun on a member is sure to die if I make a beef but I just got

- 1049 -

in my car without saying a word and I went home and I made a phone call down town and I did not get anyone. A few hours later a good friend of mine came over to the house and he found me at home - he was a member and he started to plea for Mike the Geep's life so I told this fellow that we are no animals. I had already made the call so I told John Bennet that I promise you that it would be OK but warn that guy I told John as he may think that he is a tough guy he asked me shall he bring him over to my house. Oh no I said I'm doing this for you John and that's it but as far as Mike is concerned I don't want any part of him and I am surprised at you John I said is this the way you teach your boys. If I raised my hands on him well he would be right all I did was ask for someone and Mike answered in a fresh way. He ain't here and I told Mike that I was not talking to him and he went and got a gun. Now the call that I made was for Vito Genovese I had to go and meet him and when I did meet Vito he greated me with Gee you straightened that thing out. I asked him gee you already knew. He Vito said yes John Bennet was over early this morning and he said that he was over to your house last night. I said well John is a nice guy so I overlooked it. He Vito said you done right and it was all over. Now this is the same Mike that was spying on me but I reminded Vito who Mike was when I caught him under the tree the reason why I reminded him was to make Vito understand that he is dealing

- 1050 -

with all Albert men and Mike was one of them. Vito said that he knew. Well I shook my head and I did not say anything. One day Mike the Geep gave me a big Hello in the mess hall. I just passed him up and he was shocked. I thought that he was going to come over to me there would had been a lot of jun in the mess hall if he would had come. Good luck to you Mike with that extra ten years.

Now I'll go back to West Street. Well I tell one of the boys that there was a man sitting in court thoughout the trial and one of them said what do we care that there was a guy in court we hope we were coming with you to Atlanta. I told them that it is rough at Atlanta. The old man has everyone looking at me in a very funny funny way. I ain't got a friend they are all scared to death. I'm in trouble because of this case. I was alright until this mess came up and it is not your fault that I am in this case and I told them that if you guys got any money you better get the best lawyer in town. One of them, the guy that came from Canada had a rich father and his father was getting a lawyer that is going to charge twenty-five thousand dollars a week for every week that he appears in court. The twenty-five thousand dollars is sort of a down payment, I was glad to hear it because they were underdogs. They did not care for the king. The old man was out for himself he did not care for me at all in the first place if I did tell him anything about these guys I would had sent them to their death and I had

- 1051 -

to live with it all my life. One may not understand what I am saying but in the underworld understands, I would had lived a miserable life I rather be dead. If the old man wants to find out if these guys were guilty let him use his rats like Ralph Wagner and Vito Agueci. Well we go for our sentences and I get another twenty years. One guy got an extra fifteen years. He stayed in court and fell right in the arms of a court attendant and he was dead in three or four days from a broken heart. His name was Michael Morino. I had two weeks before I go back to Atlanta. I needed more money for an appeal. Now my nephew promised the lawyer that he would give it to him and by the time I leave for Atlanta the lawyer had not gotten the money yet. On my way to Atlanta I stopped at Lewisburg Prison and I was held over for about seven or eight days and then I go to Atlanta. I ain't in Atlanta three days when I get notice that I am going to West Street again. Boy was I blowing my top - these trips are not easy. I could not figure why I was going back to West Street. When Vito Genovese heard that I was going back to West Street I heard that he got a fit and he passed a remark that he Vito hoped that I'll be back. He thought that inmates only tell him stories he did not know that they were telling me stories too. Well I get notice that I am leaving say in a couple of days. I had no chance to see Vito Genovese as he did not come out of his cell he was doing everything to make me look bad.

- 1052 -

He sent word to me that he would see me when I would come back. If Vito wasn't in Atlanta no one would had dared to take that attitude but he was the boss so who is going to say otherwise. Well this was the greatest mistake of his life he soon found out that he could not do in jail as he used to do on the outside world.

In a couple of days I left Atlanta and I was on my way to West Street. This time I went down in a private car. I asked the Marshals what is this all about and they told me that they were supposed to pick me up at Lewisburg as they knew that I was held there as a holdover and they said that they missed me at Lewisburg by a day. Well they said that they were going to give me a fine ride. They said they were going to take their time. They left me overnight in Greenville, South Carolina. Well when I got into that jail I never say any jail in my life so filthy. If the authorities ever see that jail I'm sure that they all would go to jail whoever owns the jail and I heard that it is owned by private people and they rent the jail to the City. I sat on my cot from the moment I went in the jail. I went in about four or five o'clock in the afternoon. I did not sleep all night I was afraid to move. When the Marshals picked me up in the morning about nine o'clock I told them all about it and they made me sleep in the car all that day while they were riding. When I woke up they brought me in an auto sales room and they made me go in the bathroom and shave because we had to stop and have something to eat. We sat at a counter and there were all middle age women

- 1053 -

sitting at the counter and one of them looked like a very rich woman and the Marshals were laughing and so was I. When we left the Marshals asked me what was I laughing at. I told them that I was laughing at the same thing that they were laughing at. I told them that if the woman on my right knew who I was she would had fainted and they laughed again, meaning that they were laughing at the same thing that I was laughing at. We rode all day and we stop somewhere in or near Virginia and they leave me in another jail over night. This jail was clean and the good was pretty good. The only thing that stunned me was that a young inmate locked me in my cell after I ate the food that the jail served. The kid came back about two hours later and he asked me if I wanted to have a ham sandwich. I know how these jails operate when an inmate is in charge. I told the kid that I did not have any money as I was being transferred from Atlanta Prison to New York that's why I ain't got any money. I told him that in the morning I would be picked up and I would be in New York tomorrow night so the kid sat down and he wanted me to tell him some stories about Atlanta Prison. I told him what he wanted to know and I asked him what was he doing in the jail and he told me that he was doing a couple of months for stealing a car and while he was doing this time he met and fell in love with the jail boss' daughter and he said that he felt like running away. Gee I told him with a month or two you have to serve you want

- 1054 -

to run away. He said he feels like running away because he is afraid to get married. He is afraid he said that the girl would want to be his boss. After he told me all this kind of stuff now I knew how I should talk to him. I told him that Atlanta Prison is very tough and if anyone got a chance the way he got it they would feel very fortunate and here you are trying to throw it away. Gee after I gave him this kind of talk there wasn't a thing that this kid did not bring me. He brought all kind of fruit and coffee cake until I hollered stop. He was so happy. He said that he likes to listen to old timers and he respects them but he don't want anyone else to give him any advice. He said the old timers know what they are talking about they went through it they know. Well I told him that he was a fine looking kid and stay that way and don't think that your girl is trying to be your boss she is trying to help and don't get swell headed because she gave you all the attention that you told me. Don't get her disgusted there ain't many people that would go out of their way to help you. Now you have a chance and don't blow it. He said the girl's father is going to give him a job when his time is finished next month, Well I talked to the kid most of the night until his intended father-in-law came and told him that it was time for the kid to go to sleep. Gee what a nice kid he was I hope I did him some good with my advice. When I was leaving in the morning the kids intended father-in-law gave me a nice hand. I said to myself

- 1055 -

the kid must had told his intended father-in-law about the advice that I gave him. I must say the kid did me a good favor too after all not alone he brought me food he kept me company until about almost 12 o'clock. All I had to do after the kid left was get under the blanket and go to sleep. When I first go to bed for the first time in that bed I can't sleep no matter where it is outside or in jail. I must sleep in a bed at least once before I can get used to it.

Well I reached New York City that night about eight o'clock. The reader can see for themselves how the agents were making trouble for me. This is the third time that they brought me back and forth from Atlanta to West Street. I wasn't the only one they were bringing back and forth about a half dozen inmates but I was the only one they made a fuss as to why I was going back and forth and it was Vito Genovese who started this trouble because of his own reasons as I would tell you later as I go on. Now when I reach West Street and as when one first gets into West Street the first thing that you go through is to the doctor's office and no matter how many times one goes to West Street one always must be examined and I was sitting in the doctor's office waiting for the doctor when one of my friends that was in the same case as mine as I had left West Street only ten days before sat down along side of me and he told me that we

- 1056 -

must get ready for more trouble. I asked why and he told me that right after I left West Street they took Vito Agueci out of West Street and he is now in Westchester County. Westchester County is where the agents put all the informers. It is a state jail but when they put a man there that is arrested by the Government the Government has to pay the State to keep him there. I asked this friend what am I doing here and he said that they are making another indictment and they are putting me in this new indictment. He said that he thought so. He asked me if I spoke to Vito Genovese the little time that I was on Atlanta. I said I was at Lewisburg most of the time and I was in Atlanta only three days. One day I spent in the A.N.O. and the other two days that I was in Atlanta I did not see Vito Genovese at all. He had sent word to me that he will see me on the weekend and here I am. I did not see any phony move on the part of my friend only that he looked sad. I asked him why was he sad and he said that there is a little rumor that Tony Bender is missing. He said that I should tell no one in the jail. I asked him when did he hear it and he said a few days ago. Now I know why Vito Genovese did not come over to me he must know something. He must had ordered it. You not kidding my friend said. He was not the only friend that I had at West Street there were about four or five but only four of us were in the Genovese family so we would be the first ones to hear

- 1057 -

something. They all were downhearted. Well the first day that I was at West Street I did not go any where but the second or third day my name was on the court list. By this time it came over the air that Tony Bender was reported missing by his wife. Everyone was shocked at West Street. My lawyer came and see me and I asked why am I here and he said that he had a hand in having me back so I asked him why. He said that he did not get paid for the appeal and by me bring on West Street and close to home they would get scared and they would pay him. I told him that this is no way to talk after all I said it looks bad for me and he said that he was kidding and he did not want to tell me that the agents want to put me in a third indictment. Well I told him if this is their way of breaking me down they are out of their heads because no matter how many years they give me they can't have me because they don't know what they are doing. They think that they smart. OK we see what it is all about and I want you there when they call me I told the Lawyer but when I was called to the D.A. office that I had no choice because the D.A.'s office had a writ before I go to the D. A. office. I tell my friend that the reason why I did not bother with Vito Agueci was because after they killed his brother he Vito Agueci wanted me to introduce him to Vito Genovese when we got to Atlanta and my friends asked me What is he going to tell Vito Genovese. I told them that he is going to tell

- 1058 -

Vito Genovese that you guys are guilty and that his boss in Buffalo was a partner of his and his brother Albert. They said let him tell Vito Genovese anything he wants, anyway by the time that we get out Vito Genovese would be dead. We feel sorry for you they told me we hope we can go back with you. I'll go back alone I said I'm not afraid. I did not do anything. They told me see what the D.A. tells you. OK I said these guys were in trouble with Vito Genovese because they did not tell Vito Genovese about what they were doing - that’s why they ran away the first time after they got out on bail and now with Tony Bender missing they were sure that Tony Bender was murdered because of this case but I won't dare question them if Tony Bender was in with they. Why should I - it was none of my business. They were no good by me. It made no difference I did not want anything to do with them because they did things that put me in trouble and I was not in on it. If I was I won't mind but they did not mean to put me in trouble. They just did not realize what can I do - take it like a man. I figured I could not rat on them. Vito Genovese - that's all there is to it - you won't like me anyway if I told you something I'm sure you ain't got any use for Ralph Wagner or Vito Agueci even though you acted on what they told you. I'm sure you have no use for them they don't know you like I do they don't know that if it was outside you would kill me but you would also kill them. They call me to the D.A. office and when I get to the bull pen the bull pen is a receiving cell

- 1059 -

they take you to whenever one goes to court or the D.A. office and they also called one of the other guys that was in my first case. His name is Giggs. Who comes and gets me, Frank Savaggie, the agent that had me in my furst case and second case and now he threatened me with a third case as we were sitting in the D.A.'s office. No one came for a half hour so I tell the agent what do you think I don't know what you are up to. You know well enough that there are other boys in that bull pen and you want it to appear that I am telling you something. Why are you bothering me? I have nothing to tell you and if I had something I won't tell you anything - even if I get a hundred years. He said that he told the D.A. that they are wasting their time. I told him it ain't the D.A. at all it is you that is doing all this. You are sore at me because you think that I could make you a big man. You are young and you don’t know who you are dealing with you think that the twenty years extra that you got me is going to scare me. I told you that I won't tell you anything no matter what you give me. Now I tell him to call the D.A. and I'll bet you that the D.A. would not come. He made a call and believe me he was talking to no one and when he hung up he told me that the D.A. would be right over and he started to talk again and he told me that Giggs who is in the bull pen is going to talk I told him that you think that you can make trouble by your telling me these stories. Well I ain't even going to tell Giggs that you told

- 1060 -

me that he Giggs is going to talk. What do you know about that. Well he said I'm going to put you in the new indictment and I told him to go ahead and then he asked me if I told Ralph Wagner that I was going to kill him when I got out. He said that it was bothering him and that is why he got me more time. I told him that I believe him that Ralph Wagner told him. Sure he told you he was scared to death that you were going to get him 60 years. He would tell you anything. Then he the agent told me you know he told me don't you think I know a dog when I see one. Then he the agent told me that he heard that Ralph Wagner is in the same cell that Vito Genovese is in. I told him you are up to date as to what is going on in Atlanta - who tells you everything, his Father. He the agent told me how do you know that his father told me. Then I got mad and I got up and I sald let's go before I blow my top. He made another call and he said that the D.A. can't see me until next week. Now we leave the D.A. office and he is taking me to a longer route to the bull pen. I asked him what is the idea. He said that we might meet the D.A. on our way down. Well he took about ten minutes to bring me back and when I got back there was all the boys from another case in the bull pen. I was so mad that I felt like screaming but Frank took off fast and he never did call Giggs. He at this time did not tell me anything about Vito Agueci. Well when I was in the bull pen waiting to go back to West Street everyone was quiet in the bull pen. What

- 1061 -

am I going to do with this guy I ask Giggs and he did not say anything but when I went back to West Street I told it to one of the boys that the agent told me about Giggs is going to talk but my friend agreed with me not to pay any attention as to what the agent told you and don't even tell Giggs so 1 kept my mouth shut even though I was in the same cell with Giggs. The agent also had told me how Mike the Geep was pleading with him and that he the Geep had a couple of kids. He Frank the agent was telling me that Mike the Geep even got more time he is sure that he won't be able to take it. I also kept it to myself but when Mike the Geep was trying to tell me how I should act when they the agents call me. Well it was enough for me right there and then in front of everyone I asked Mike if he had a couple of kids and he said yes and he wanted to know why I asked and I just said nothing and then he came over to my cell and he wanted to know what did Frank the Agent ask me or tell me about Mike. I told him nothing in the first place Frank the Agent was telling so many phony stories who could pay attention as to what he was saying. He had something to say about everyone. He was also telling me that one of the three guys that was picked up in Spain put it over on him, I told him every one puts it over on you. Yes he said remember when Manearo was held for deportation and he could not get out on bail, Well he Frank said that he Frank made a deal that it he Frank got bail for Manearo he Manearo

- 1062 -

would do something for him he said that Manearo got out on bail and then he fooled Frank the agent. Gee I told him everyone fools you. I don't believe you I told him you are telling me this phony story so that I spread a rumor against Manero but I'm going to keep my mouth shut no matter what you tell me and I did not tell anyone. By this time I knew him. Well they call me again at the D.A. office and this time there was three of them. When Frank came and got me down at the bull pen and he was walking me upstairs he told me his boss George Gaffney wanted to talk. I told him that you are wasting your time and Frank agreed with me and he said that he told them that they can't do anything with you. Well when I went upstairs they called me in a room and they told me that Tony Bender is dead and that I am next and he asked me if I care to hear it. He said that they had a recording and it said on the recording.- Pat Pagano was talking to Tommy Rye and Pat Pagano was supposed to be telling Tommy Rye how he Pat Pagano was going to give me a shot in the head the first chance he gets. The only thing that I answered was now they send telegrams when they going to kill someone. I knew that Gaffney was telling the truth but I won't give him any satisfaction and then he told me that if I join on the side of the Government he would give me a arm chair for the rest of my life and if you don't believe me he said I'll show you the Attorney General and I are good friends and he wanted to show me a picture of himself and the Attorney General shaking hands together. I told him that I did

- 1063 -

not care to see it and that if he was through I was ready to go. He said to the other two agents that were there - their names were Pat Ward and Frank Svaggie - Ok let him go and get killed. I left with Frank and by the time we got to the bull pen there was another inmate in the bull pen - I don't remember why he was there and it was Manero and Frank told me there he is you can tell him what I said. I did not say anything I was in a daze. I did not know if I was coming or going so Manearo said something and I did not get him. I asked him what did he say and he said nothing. I went and sit in a corner and I was thinking about the tough guy Pat Pagano when I got back to West Street I told only one guy what Gaffney had told me and he said that he believed it. They talk on the phone on purpose they want the law to know that we are troublemakers. I told him you are not kidding and my friend told me to be careful when I go to Atlanta and he told me not to accept any sandwiches from anyone and see if I can stay in West Street for awhile. I told him how can I stay at West Street I have to tell them a story and that won't be nice. I said I'll go and see what I can do I know the odds are against me but what can I do and I asked my friend how come they feel this way about me and he said maybe they think you were in on this deal. They killed Tony why can't they think the same about you and Tony had nothing to do with this deal my friend said. One of the other guys got near the cell and we put him in on what the agents had told me, Well Mr. Gaffney you been yapping how I gave you

- 1064 -

any information and you said in a Washington paper that you were the only one that made me talk. Well if you are a man I would like to see you and I would like to ask you if it is the truth of what I just said if I talked it was after I got in a jam in Atlanta. I hope you would be so kind and tell the truth once in your life and if I told you anything would I go back to Atlanta. I would had gone where you told me that if I join on your side I could forget all the time that I had and go in some good hiding place that you had for me, especially that you knew in your heart that I did not have anything to do with the rap you put on me and got me another twenty years. You said it yourself that you gave me the twenty years to break me down, Tell the truth would you send me back to Atlanta if I would had joined your side. Come on Gaffney just once tell the truth. You know Gaf I know the story how Tiger Lil threw you out of her joint on the west side because you went in Tiger Lil and you lied to her and she took you by the neck and put you out on the street. You know I am a friend of Tiger Lil and she was big enough to grab you by the neck and throw you out as you are about four feet tall and stop telling the newspapers that you turned me over to the FBI. You know I ran away from you. I will tell it when I get there. Well in a few days I know that I would be on my way back to Atlanta and I would see what it is all about. I asked the man in charge of West Street - I can't remember his name it was not the Warden

- 1065 -

- if I could go back by auto because I was sick and tired of riding the bus. It meant that I got to go through the same routine back to Lewisburg and when I leave Lewisburg I would make another stop at St. Petersburg so I was headed for another hard trip. I stayed at West Street just about three or four days when I was told that I leave in the morning and I said goodbye the night before. The next morning about seven o'clock the list came up with the name that were going to leave that morning and when the list came up there was Vito Agueci's name on it and one of the boys came over to me at the shower room as I was taking a bath. He told me guess who is on the list to go with you. I could not imagine and the guy told me that Vito's name was on the bus list that is how I knew that Vito was on the list so the boys that came from Canada sent for me and they told me to please be nice to Vito Agueci please do it for their sake. They knew that I did not like him not because he was suspected of talking but just that I did not like him. Well I told them that I would be nice to him. Do you want me to tell him anything. One guy told me to tell him that his father is going to take care of his wife. Ok I'll tell him. I told him I had to rush because they were calling my name. I spoke to the Captain and I asked him if I can be handcuffed to a friend of mine he is already on the bus. I don't know where the bus picked him up but he is there. The Captain said OK what is his name, as there was a couple

- 1066 -

of guys on the bus. I gave the Captain his name and when I was ready and I went downstairs to get on the bus the Captain called me and he put me together with Vito Agueci. He looked kind of scared and he asked me if anyone thought bad of him. I told him no and he was happy. Now when we reached Lewisburg and when we go in the mess hall for breakfast the next morning one of the guys that also came from Canada came rushing over and he had an apron on his arm as he worked in the mess hall and he had a knife under the apron and he was about to stab Vito in the stomach but I stopped him and I told him that Vito was OK and the guy asked me if I was sure. I told him that Johnnie from Canada wants him treated kindly. OH the guy said, I think Vito Agueci saw it come off and he made believe that he did not see it. Well I took care of Vito - I gave him cigarettes and everything that I was getting in the line of toothpaste, toothbrush and all that kind of stuff. We stayed at Lewisburg for about eight days or none - I don’t remember - and then we were on our way to Atlanta. We got to Atlanta about nine o'clock at night and the next morning I did not go for breakfast as I got up late so I lost my breakfast and when they came back from the mess hall Vito came over to me and he told me that everyone was asking for me and he had some cigarettes with him that someone sent to me that day. I went into the office and they told me being that I made a few trips back and forth I need not be in the A.N.O. so he let me go right back to my job in the green house.

- 1067 -

In two days I had a meet with Vito Genovese and we sat at the end of the yard and I told him that I did not hear anything about the jukeboxes and he said don't worry he would take care of it. Gee I said it is twenty-seven months now - when am I going to hear something. I told Vito that if I had a good lawyer I would had beaten the case. He said that I should not worry. I knew he was lying but I could do nothing about it so I was looking sad and with my ears open at the same time. The first thing he asked me was how did those guys feel about Tony Bender. I told him that they did not feel good about it. Then he asked me if they know what happened. I told him that everyone on West Street knows what happened. Of course I am talking of members only. Well he said it is the best thing that could had happened and he was about to say that Tony was a rat when he checked himself and said well he could not had taken it because he was a sick man. I asked him why was Tony Bender going to get arrested and he said yes and I did not say anything. I did not have any bad intention I was hoping he Vito would not press me but he did. First he said those guys got you another twenty years. I told him that the agents did it thinking that they would break me down I Know he said but if they fool around Tony would be alive and you had a chance to get a cut in your first case Vito I said that is why I want to mind my own business. All I can tell you is that I never had anything to do with Tony or

- 1068 -

Vinnie all I know is that you all were a happy party down town and I never bothered to come down town because every time Tony saw me with Vinnie he would do something to discourage me and I would go away. I felt like a stranger down there. Now all of a sudden Tony is in trouble with you, I must be involved I can't see it and I swear I ain't shedding any tears for Tony and I ain't glad it don't matter to me either way. I have enough sense to know that you always loved Tony and I ain't going to profit because he is dead. I just ain't that kind of a guy. Then he asked me in other words you are telling me that you don't know the setup whether Tony was in on the deal. I swear to you that I don't know unless you want me to guess what do these outsiders know they saw us talking together and they form their own conclusion who cares about them. I can't see myself telling you any stories about Tony Bender. I tried to come and talk to you when you when you first came back from Italy and you did not even give me a chance to talk you must had known why I came the first thing that you did was tell me that Tony Bender was my boss. Yes its true he said now I want to help you if you tell me the truth and I don't want you to think, Well in that case I don't know anything if I had to tell you anything it would be only what I think, unless I lie this is jail I said and you see all the lams that are in here they go out hunting news for you. I can't life that way I just can't. You know all you want to know about the case there was plenty of headlines and now he asked me how much

- 1069 -

money did they get caught on their person when they got arrested. I told him that it was all over the newspapers that they got caught with seventy-one thousand dollars. He answered me and he said in other words you are telling me only what was in the newspapers you figure that I already know it. I ain't figuring anything I just don't want any part of this case. All I know is that I got another twenty years and I ain't in love with anyone no one did me any good. I just have my own principles that is all. Furthermore the way I understand it on the outside that everything was peaceful what do I know what was going on but you mean to tell me that Vinnie did not tell you anything. No he did not tell me anything he was on his guard he knew that I had come from Atlanta and he knew that you were going to help me in my first case and I told him that your lawyer Davis was up to see me twice so he was afraid to say anything if he had anything to say he asked me how I got along with you. I told him like I always told him that when I asked Tony for Vito's house number or phone number as I wanted to come and visit you just for respect I want to come and see you and bring my family along. He Tony toid me that he would not advise me to come and see you so he talked me out of it. I don't know. I told Vinnie I don't like the way things look I always told Vinnie that he should listen to Vito and no one else. You can ask him. Now there is friction between you and I must suffer I can't see it and 1 know that you don‘t need me and you know it for a long time that I ain't that kind of a guy and I know it in my heart

- 1070 -

that none of these guys can come near you on the outside and you know what they are. They think that they are fooling you and I know different none of these guys know you from the outside. He agreed with me and then he asked me if I care to go in his cell. Yew I told him you asked Ralph Wagner to ask me. I told Ralph that if Vito would ask me I would come and then I told him that the way it is I can't come because I am in A Block and Vito is in B Block and I would need to change my job in order to come in your cell and he told me how would you like to go and work in the tailor shop that would put me in B Block and besides you would earn yourself some money. You can't depend on your family to keep sending you money. Right there I knew that he had no good intention because if he did he would say that he would get me my money for the machines. Well I figured it was the best thing for me to do. In other words, I would be able to judge better if I go and live with him. Ralph Wagner thought that he was conning me but I did not pay any attention to Ralph. I knew that in my own way I would get information from Ralph not that he was going to get information from me and believe me I got all the information I wanted from Ralph. I played up to Ralph all the way. I knew that Ralph had a habit of working both ways. Well it remained that I make a request to go to the tailor shop and after I go in the tailor shop I would request to go into Vito Genovese cell, in a couple of days I was on my way to Vito's cell and ready to go to the tailor shop. One day before I was to go into the tailor shop

- 1071 -

one of the boys that was a member had told me to go to the plumber shop and it was about two o'clock in the afternoon - he told me that Joe Beck had a filet mignon steak sandwich for me. I told him that I will go just as soon as I would finish a little work but instead I disappeared and made it my business to forget all about the filet mignon even though I was hungry but I made a mistake I went and told a kid by the name of Solly - he was one of the guys that was With the Gallo boys but at this time Solly's friends on the outside had pulled away from the Gallo boys and they went back with Joe Profaci just the way I figured that Frank Costello was doing on West Street. When I told Solly that Frank would talk into his boss to pull away from the Gallo boys now in order to find out where I stand with big Solly I will ask him how is Jr. as Jr. was his intended boss as Solly was not a member yet but he Was proposed, meaning that he was on the list to be a member. Well when I asked Solly I started in this style: I said to him that I heard that Jr. pulled away on Joe Gallo. Yes he said just the way I predicted at West Street when I saw Frank Costello hanging around Jr. Hey Solly you know this is none of my business I am only listening to you. Now I know that they won't ask me to have anymore sandwiches. About two days later I was walking with Big Solly when the guy that told me to go and have the filet mignon said don't worry Joe he said everything would come out alright in the end. Trying to give me a hint not to be

- 1072 -

talking to Big Solly. I took the hint that is the reason why I am not mentioning this fellow's name he tried to help me but with Solly I figured that I would get all the information I want as he was not too bright especially when he started to knock Vito Genovese and Mike Coppolo. Boy I figured I was in good shape.

One day not long after this happened, I'll say about two days later, Ralph Wagner asked me to get a partner and he would play me handball. He knew that I would get Big Solly. I told Ralph OK I would get my friend to make Vito hear it and Vito asked me who is my friend. I told him some kid Solly. I wanted Vito to think that I believed that Big Solly was sincere with me but Solly played a bad game and made me lose on purpose. That night Vito asked did you guys play that handball game. I said yes but Solly did not feel too good and we lost and Vito asked me where did I meet Solly. I told him at West Street and he Vito told me you talk with anyone. I said the talk is cheap if they make a deal on it and they add to it. I must say that it ain't my fault of course by this time I was in the tailor shop and in the same cell as Vito Genovese and Ralph. It was only about two days that I was in there when they started to make things uneasy for me. Ralph started his two way business and he was telling me how Vito is going to get the seven years off his back just as soon as Vito gets out. Now Ralph Wagner is one of the worse young punks in America the proof is the kind of stickups that he pulled and that was one of the reasons why I did not want Ralph around me on the

- 1073 -

outside. He was teiling me how he is going to talk to Vito Genovese to help me now if there is a human being on earth that don't understand what I am telling you I am Vito's Coupe - he stood up for me when I got married and I have been with him for thirty years and he makes a punk like Ralph Wagner feel like a king. When I saw what was going on I started to give Ralph a lot of attention. Now Ralph is confused and it is going to his head. One day we were in the mess hall and there was another guy on my table beside Ralph and Ralph made a mistake and he raised his voice at me. Well I got up to grab him right in the mess hall and he ran away like a deer and I was shouting at him that I am going to break his neck. The other guy that was sitting at the table and was in the same cell as Ralph and he told me that if Ralph would had raised his hands he would had killed him right in the mess hall. When I got back to the cell Ralph was sitting on the bed like a little boy and he was asking me to forgive him as this is the first time that he ever pulled such a thing. I told him that if he don't cut it out I am going to start with him right in front of Vito. I told him that he is putting on a good show with the old man and don't spoil it by that I meant I don’t want to start anything with him because he ain't that important. I told him that he put me in trouble with the law. Now he is putting me in trouble with the old man. Now I told him to be careful from here on. He started to pet me and he said that it would never happen again. Then he told me that he would give me a hint if he sees

- 1074 -

anything wrong and he told me that Mike Coppolo and Joe Beck are making all the trouble for me. I told Ralph I can't be bothered with him as I have more important guys to worry about.

Around the same time that this happened I was sitting in the mess hall with Vito and Joe Beck when all of a sudden Vito was telling Joe Beck how tough Ralph is. I almost laughed and Joe Beck caught me and he told me "Gee I thought you were going to laugh out loud," but I did not answer Joe Beck but I got worried about Vito. Gee I had so much respect for him and look at the way he is disappointing me. What happened? I was thinking maybe the time got the best of him. Gee I was stunned. Now Ralph wanted to make my bed for me and I toid him to cut it out. I understood the move. Vito are you surprised I must tell you what I understood - it was just like Ralph fixing my death bed. The old man was stunned when I push Ralph away. One night the old man sat me down on his bed and he asked me if I ever heard any remarks about his wife. I told him that I did not. Then he told me that his wife did nothing wrong but he was sore at everyone down town because they failed to look over her while he was in Italy, especially Tony Bender as he was talking I tried to get a word in but he kept waving his hand as if to tell me keep your mouth shut. Tears were coming down his cheeks as he was talking. I still tried to get a word in but he won't let me talk. He kept on

- 1075 -

talking for about a half hour and then he told me that he found out that Tony Bender and Vinnie were doing business without me knowing anything. He said he was glad that he found out. Remember at this time Vito Agueci is in the A.N.O. as I explained in the earlier part of this story he had to stay in the A.N.O. for thirty days. Now that Vito found out that I was innocent in whatever Tony Bender and Vinnie were doing and he said that they got me this new twenty years. Well he was starting to act fine with me and I notice and so did he that Ralph Wagner resented us getting along and Ralph started to refuse to play cards. We used to play every night. One night he sat on my bed and as Ralph was sleeping on my left he started to tell Ralph that he better behave or he Vito would make him behave. God forbid if Ralph would had answered Vito. I would had showed Vito just how tough Ralph was. Now things were going very nice for a couple of weeks. Now Ralph is acting like a baby and he does not agree on anything that we ask him to do. I felt like asking the old man if I can go to work on Ralph until he caught himself and he started to behave. Ralph used to come to the tailor shop during the afternoon - he worked on construction as they were building a new building and it was right along side of the tailor shop and he used to come to the tailor shop window, after he had time as sometimes he had no work for at least a half hour as they had to wait for the truck. He would

- 1076 -

tap at the tailor shop window and I used to go and speak to him tor about fifteen minutes. One day I was so hot as it was warm in the shop - this day was over a hundred degrees so I was perspiring and I asked Ralph tell the truth what did you tell the old man while I was at West Street. He looked at me and said if the old man ever find out that you asked me that question he would have a fit. Oh I said it is got so that one cannot talk between themselves any more just like outside. OK Ralph go and tell the old man that I asked you if you tell him then I am going to start talking too. He said what are you going to tell the old man. I said that is my business for sure you ain't going to like it. Well I was only kidding. He said OK let's not talk any more. Now when I get back to my table in the tailor shop my job was to cut the threads on the garment after they were finished. The officer came over and he said that he has been watching me for a week going to the window every day. I must stop or he would report me and it would mean that I would have to go to court if he reports me. Now was a chance to find out if the old man knows that Ralph is coming over to the tailor shop - I waited until we started to play cards and I told Ralph not to come to the tailor shop window any more because I was warned when I told Ralph as I was talking to him when I said it - the old man looked at Ralph and said to him you been going to the tailor shop. Ralph said yes and the old man told him what do want to get this get this guy locked up. Now I realize why they wanted me to get out of

- 1077 -

the green house. When t was in the green house I used to go all over the joint and I was able to see what was going on. Now that I am in the tailor shop I have a clock to punch - I go in the shop at seven-thirty five in the mornings and go to eat for an hour and don't get out until four o'clock in the afternoon. Now I am starting to realize why they wanted me to be out of the way. I could not see anyone and when we went in our cells and at five o'clock there would be yard until seven-thirty at night. The old man would say let's stay in and we play cards. Well this is really tough on me I can't get around and when I did see someone he would ask me how is everything with the old man. I said to myself, Gee could it be all over the joint of what is going on. The guys that like me would ask me, I hope everything is OK with you and the old man now. When we did go out at night Ralph would make it his business to have me with him at the handball court which was out of the way. It was at the end of the yard. One day out of the clouds I just go off from the handball court while we were playing a game and Ralph asked me where are you going. I told him that it was none of his business and I went at the end of the yard - I'll say it was about a three block walk - it was where all the boys were and I see Vito in a huddle with another friend of mine. I sit along side of Mike Coppolo. Now to get a reaction I told Mike that he has got himself a new tailor. He said who is

- 1078 -

the new tailor. I said me. He laughed and Johnnie Dio answered and he said that he is Mike's tailor. Now I wanted to be Mike's tailor just as much as I want to die it was only a test to see some reaction. I smiled when Dio put his two cent in. These are the Lts. I said to myself instead of telling me yes Joe if I need anything I'll let you know. Mike never saw me again and the way I was acting with Mike one could see that he was puzzled, I would pass him up like mad and Johnnie Dio I never went near him again, Now it was time to show them that I did not care about anything. Once of twice that I went out of the cell and Vito remained in the cell. When I came back at night Vito would ask me if I played handball. If I said I did not then he would ask me if I played Bocci. I would say no and then he would ask me well what did you do. I would say that I went in a corner and I was thinking. He would ask me are you got something on your mind. I would say maybe I am allowed to think and he would say to me did you see Mike. I would say I did not go towards where he is he would ask me why. No reason I would answer I just don't care to go near anyone that's all. One day I met with Mike face to face and I was with Ralph. I was forced to introduce Ralph to Mike. I said this is the kid that takes care of Vito as if they did not know one another and Mike asked me if I care to go to where they were playing tennis. I said that I did not and Ralph told me that I was fresh and I looked at Ralph and I said you never met Mike. What are you kidding I said.

- 1079 -

He swore that he never met Mike. I said do you want to play handball or do you want to get out of here. When I was mad he would be like a little mouse. The next day I asked him if he told the old man that I introduced him to Mike. He said he told the old man. Now I remember that Vito Genovese sent a couple of guys nuts - now he is trying to send me nuts. Well it ain't going to happen I said to myself. I was walking around brazen and I did not care who I passed up and who I insulted. I lost respect for everyone and I started to play handball with other guys and Ralph would teil Vito that I don't want to play handball with him any more. Vito would ask me why I don't want to play any more. I just would look and I won't say anything. All I would say is do you guys want to play cards or I go to sleep. Vito would call me at his bedside and he would ask me what's wrong and I would say nothing. All this time Vito Agueci was in the A.N.O. and the thirty days Were up and Vito did not get out of the A.N.O. I met him in the mess hall and I asked him how come he did not get out. He said that he did not know. Well I had my own troubles and that was that. It hurt me only to talk to Vito Agueci as I could not stand his face. He had a treacherous face. I am still asking Vito my machines and he is still stalling me.

One day I saw Johnie Dio and Mike Coppolo talking to Vito Agueci in the mess hall. Vito Agueci was still in the A.N.O. as we were allowed to sit with the

- 1080 -

inmates that were in the A.N.O. I still did not care to be nice to Vito Agueci I just did not like him and that was it. What could he say about me - I figured I don't care. I was sorry that I saved him at Lewisburg he just did not appeal to me but I felt like getting a hold of Johnnie Dio and I wanted to ask him what are you investigating me. Well if I did that much the old man would get hold of me and I would start something. Right after I saw Johnnie Dio talking to Vito Agueci I notice that while I was playing handball with some other guys other than Ralph I notice Johnnie Dio was sitting in the basebail grand stand and as the baseball grandstand is near the handball court I could not help but see them. I did not stop playing and I did not let on that I saw them and when I went in the cell that night I did not give anyone any attention I just sat on the bed and I was thinking by myself. They asked me what is the matter. I said I have my own troubles does anyone mind. The next day I was in the mess hall and Ralph was sitting with me and Vito Genovese was sitting on another table with a new inmate. I think he was in the same case that Vito Genovese was in - there were about fourteen of them in one case and most of them I did not know, This fellow got up and he came on my table and he said that he had just finished five years in Sing Sing and he owed the Government five years and he is starting his new five years and it is a funny world. He went on to say I have heard about you all through the years and I never had the pleasure

- 1081 -

to meet you. I have a nessage for you from a friend of yours that is doing time in Sing Sing and he told me to look you up and he sends you his best regards. I thanked him although it was phony and I asked him what was his name and he said that he was sorry that he had not mentioned it. Well I'll try to spell it as best as I can - it was Charlie Barsalone. Nice to meet you I said and I said it with a grin on my face. Ralph asked me if I thought that something was wrong. I told him to mind his own business and I told him from here on be careful. He said let me tell you just one thing. Go ahead I told him what do you want to say Joe he said I don't like this guy. Well what did you think when you started with these guys I did not want you to meet any of these guys on the outside and you went and mess me up With the old man. Don't worry I said to Ralph nothing is going to happen to me. You will see these guys are full of suspicious moves. They think that they are going to knock me crazy but I am not going crazy. I promise you right then and there I felt like grabbing rhe old man. I ain't used to his kind of treatment. What is he trying to do. I just can't stand the sight of the old man any more. I know something is going to happen. Now here I am during all this time and I must go through all this. I did not do anything wrong. If I did would I be back in Atlanta. Are these guys nuts? Is he mad at me because I did not tell him anything about Tony Bender and Vinnie? Is this guy selfish. I said to myself he is got the whole joint at his feet. Well I'll be I said to myself if only I had left

- 1082 -

my family in good shape I would not mind but they took everything. Now what do they want. Now I must say that this new guy Charlie Barsalone had to grow up all over again if he thought that he put it over. I said to myself I could not tell anyone else. God forbid is this old man gone crazy. Then I heard that he got a piece of my machines. God can anyone guess how I felt. He is got millions if not billions and he is taking my family's bread and butter. Boy I said to myself I had no one else to talk to so I had to talk to myself and on top of it all they told my family that I gave the machines to the nephew rather than to give them to the family. Now I am really in a daze. Well all I was thinking no matter what happened he Vito Genovese ain't going to have any luck. I'll see to it no matter what happened. I tried talking to him. I tried to tell him that we are in jail and these guys are acting right. He asked me what are they doing. I said never mind what they are doing I ain't telling you anything I'm just telling you that you think that they are men. Well you would find out and you know as well as I know that if this was outside that I will run them all out of town and you think that I am going to take this kind of treatment. Well we see about it. Now Vito Agueci is out of the A.N.O. and they put him to work with Johnnie Dio. Well I'll be, Vito Agueci sees me at the handball court and he tells me that he would like to take a walk with me and I tell him that if he did not mind that I don't care to take a walk with him and

- 1083 -

I said to him did I have anvthing to do with you on the outside or was I a friend of his until we met in jail. He said no. Well what do you want from me if I walk around with you these guys would think that we are buddies from the outside. Now hear me I said this guys would take you around and I want to be left along. I introduced him to some guy and I told the fellow to teach Vito Agueci the ropes and please if you need any cigarettes this guy would give them to you. When I was in Canada I asked you guys to let me stay there as you know when Tony Bender called me at your brother's house I did not want to come in and you guys all were afraid to keep me there. I want to tell you I don't care for anyone in our case. No one did me any good and I got in trouble just for knowing those guys and I got more time. I am a man and I ain't telling the law anything and I ain't going to tell the underworld anything so please stay away from me and leave me alone is this final I asked him. He said OK and he went away. The other guy starting to tell him that this guy is got his own troubles. The old man thinks that he knows something and the guy is in trouble because he wants to mind his own business. He meant me. The next thing that they pulled on me. One afternoon not long after Vito Agueci came out of the A.N.O. I went in the mess hall as all of the New Yorkers sat on the left of the mess hall. There wasn't a guy sitting on the left of the mess hall. No one took those tables because they all knew that the

- 1084 -

New Yorkers sat at that part of the mess hall. I found myself all alone and they all were sitting in the middle of the mess hall. Well I'll tell you I was in the New York Catholic Protectory and we all were kids and believe me we acted better than these mutts. If they got to do what they got to do why don’t they do it so I got up and I yelled at them and I said you bunch of so and sos but no one answered me. I was looking at Johnnie Dio. Someone tooke me by the arm and said come on Joe let's get out of here. Can you imagine such a thing. I could not figure out what it was all about. Ralph or Vito Genovese were not there when I went in the cell that night. I sat on my bunk and I did not talk to anyone and Ralph sat on his bed and he looked at me and said that I look like a wild man. I told him if he don't get away from me I'll give you wiid man. I'm going to shock these guys. They think that they can pull that kind of stuff. Ralph said that is way out of order. I turned my back to him and I did not talk to him any more. I did not go to the mess hall the same night I went to my cell and I had a cup of coffee and some cake as we were allowed to buy cake and the next day I was playing handball when Vito Agueci came over and he called me on the side and he asked me if I would do him a favor and ask Vito Genovese to let him know if Vito Genovese would talk to him. I told Vito Aguece that I'll do it just to see what you are going to say. The first lie you say you and I would be all over this joint. He said he ain't going to say

- 1085 -

anything about me. Listen I said to him the next time you say what you just said I'm going to take a rap out on you, I'm fed up with you I said. God I said who cursed this fellow on me. 1 figure that I must tell Vito Genovese that this guy wants to talk to him if i don't then he would go and tell Vito Genovese that he asked to talk to him and I did not tell him anything about it. Then he Vito Genovese would have all the rights in the world to yell at me and say that I am trying to cover up those guys that I left at West Street. All in all I was in the middle of the whole thing. What a fuss and the payoff is those guys at West Street were ready to defy Vito Genovese. They were waiting for someone to ask them questions and no one asked them anything. Vito Genovese offered me all the help in the world if I told him what I knew. He Vito Genovese did not need me at all he just wanted the satisfaction that I would tell him what I knew but I won't at all costs because those guys at West Street would not hurt me if Vito Genovese asked them anything about me so I was going to be no dog if I told Vitp Genovese what he wanted to know. What would he do about it those guys had friends they were not all alone. The way I was.

Well that night after Vito Aguece asked me to tell Vito Genovese that he Vito Agueci wants to speak to him I first told Ralph Wagner Gee I am in a spot Vito Agueci wants to talk to Vito Genovese and if I don't tell Vito Genovese it would look bad. Ralph told me not to tell Vito Genovese anything. He

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asked me if I was crazy. I said to myself look at this bum he wants me to get into more trouble with the old man. I told Ralph that he was right that I should not say anything to Vito Genovese. I left Ralph on his bed and I went and sit on Vito Genovese's bed and Vito called Ralph over. I said if you don't mind I want to talk to you alone. By this time I was fed up and if Ralph says one word everything would blow up. I started to tell Vito Genovese that there is a guy in my case and he is one of the boys and he is the brother of the guy that they killed in Buffalo right after he got out on bail and he said that he did not know anything about it so I told him that it was all over the newspapers and on radio and T.V. for about a week. I knew he was lying but I did not care. As soon as I told him that Vito Agueci wanted to talk to him he told me that he did not want to talk to him. He asked me what does this guy want to talk to me about. I told him that I did not know and I did not care. He asked me who is the guy with on the outside. I told him that the guy is with the people in Buffalo. He said it again that he did not want to talk to him. Ok I said and I went and lay on my bed and Ralph asked me what happened and I gave him a nasty look for an answer. About two hours later the old man called me on his bed. He asked me how is this Vito Agueci. I told him as far as I am concerned I don't like him and he is no good but if I don't let you know that he wants to talk to you I figured that you would think that I was looking to hide something so I’m telling you he went to tell me that he got an idea. He

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said how would I like it if he made Sam talk to him. Sam was a guy that came from Buffalo. I told him that I don't care what he does. Then he said that he had a better ides he said that he would let Johnnie Dio talk to him. Now I was getting disgusted and again I told him that I done my duty and I am supposed to give Vito Agueci an answer tonight and if I get disgusted with him tonight I kick him around the joint. To me it seemed that this guy is bothering me. He said hold it for one day I let you know tomorrow night. I said OK with disgust everytime. The old man calls me at his bedside, Ralph gets up and follows me. I told the old man what is wrong with him everytime I get up to call you this kid gets up and follows me. He said he don't mean anything. OK Vito I said you see what this is going to lead to. One must remember that this was no joke to go through it was affecting me very hard. I was in such a state of mind that I did not know if I was coming or going but one thing I had in mind that 1 am not going to die alone. I'm going to take someone with me. I did not know who - there were so many of them so I was thinking of the worse one and I remembered how Joe Beck would knock the old man and then if I said one word the old man would know about it. Joe Beck was jealous no matter who took the old man's time he wanted to be with him all the time. He always would tell me you must be nice to these guys. They can do a lot for you. How am I going to be nice by hanging around someone else. He Joe Beck

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would say see the old man paid for my lawyer I have got no money he would say and I will say I have my money but they have it now. One can see how the conversation was going. He Joe Beck can make a deal out of this conversation he can go and tell the old man that Joe, meaning me, told me that you guys took his business. How would I know because the old man would say to me don't tell anyone that they took your business it don't look right and I would say that it don't look right that they took it either and if I don't get it back I'll tell the whole world and he would look at me and that's all. That day Vito Genovese got a visit and when I came in the cell he said that he had some good news for me in a week or two I would have my money from the machines. For one second I believed it but when I went on my bed I thought it over. I was about to write home and tell them the good news but I changed my mind and Ralph asked me what is the matter don't you feel good about it and I would give him a look and he would turn around on the other side of the bed but then I would calm down and I told Ralph that I got to surprise them at home that is why I don't want to write and then he would ask me but you believe it don't you. Sure I would say why shouldn't I believe him remember he the old man is my coupe. Now all of a sudden you want to tell me about people that I have been with for thirty years. Isn't that nice of you. Tell the truth Ralph I'll bet that you think that you are going to get something out of this. Gee guys would do anything to get time

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off their back. He said you not kidding. I would say why didn’t you think about it when you were outside. He would not answer. Then the old man told me that he wanted me to take a walk with Vito Agueci. The following night there was a spot around the Bocci court where they all used to walk around and I asked Vito Genovese you mean that no one told me that Vito Agueci is one of the guys that was in my case and is the brother of Albert Agueci the guy that they killed after he got out on bail and they did not tell you that there was a guy in court all through the trial and he was one of the boys why am I involved in this so deep it is against Tony Bender and Vinnie as I told you. I'm sure you know how I got along with Tony Bender all through the years and now that he got in trouble with you I'm involved. No Vito I told him I would not butt in. I was left out of everything. Tony Bender and Vinnie did - they had the crap game and they made a lot of money. They had the junk business together with Patty Muccio and they made a lot of money. Now all I ask for is to be left alone. I don't want any part of anything. When I sold my house in Yonkers I took about six thousand of the money and I put it in the machines because I had to straighten out the route because everyone wanted a loan. The machines today is loans and loans if I did not give the loans I would lose some of my locations. Now all I'm asking you is to give my family the money that is due to them. The government did not take the machines away from me because they

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the government knew that I did not put any down payment on the machines. I worked my heart out for two years without taking any money out of the machines. All I kept doing was put loans in the business and I was taking the money out of the sharklocking business and giving out loans for two years. I figured after two years I'll be settled. I broke my family with these machines and my nephew told me that he is lucky that he gets a hundred a week out of the machines meaning that Tommy Rye is got the machines. I have to be a traitor to get my blood that I put into those machines. Ok Vito I said tomorrow night I would walk around with Vito Agueci and make a fool out of myself because Vito Agueci works down at the cloth room with Johnnie Dio and they are always in the huddle.

So the next night I walked around with Vito Agueci and I told him that Vito Genovese does not want to talk to you as we were walking Vito Genovese and Mike Coppola were sitting on a bench as we walked around and when I walked around about three times I saw that Vito Genovese took a good look at him I walked away and I went right back to my cell as I wanted to do some thinking as by this time I was getting in a very bad state of mind. These guys have everything going good outside and they have a clear head and if one is doing time and his family is having it hard on the outside he goes crazy. He can't do good time. If everything is Ok outside the guy in jail would have peace of mind

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in jail. Now I went in my cell because someone told me to go in my cell. I was trying to figure out why this party told me to go in my cell. Believe me I won't want to go through the same thing even if I have to die. I was not eating and I was thinking so hard that I had to take about twenty aspirin a day. Now when the old man came in the cell the first thing he asked me where did you go. So I told him that a birdie told me to go back to my cell. He asked me who told you. I told him wouldn't you love to know. Now I had lost all respect for him and I was talking nasty to him. Now the next day I did not go and play handball. The guys that I was playing hendball had told me in the afternoon that they were not going to play handball and when I ain't at the handball court I am at the Bocci Court but that morning which was the morning after I had waiked Vito Agueci around the night before and I had met Solly in the bathroom and he told me that I just missed Vito Genovese as he had just left the showers. I figured that Solly must had thought that I met Vito on his way out of the showers but I had not seen him and Solly must had thought that I had saw him and Solly said to me that greaseball ruined you. Well when I heard Solly speak that way I made Solly understand that I knew about the greaseball. The guy Solly and I called a greaseball was Vito Agueci. Then I asked Solly if he spoke to Vito Genovese. He said that he did not. Then I told Solly I told you that the greaseball was no good

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at West Street, didn't I? Solly was at West Street for about fourteen months so he knew us from West Street and Solly and I were close at West Street. What do you think of a guy like Vito Agueci I asked and Solly said that Vito Agueci certainly put you in a lot of trouble. I asked Solly if he knew what he said about me to Vito Genovese. Solly said that he did not know. How long did Vito Agueci talk to Vito Genovese I asked. Solly said that he did not know but he talked for a long time. Solly did not know that Vito Genovese made me walk around with Vito Agueci the night before - the reader can understand how important this information was to me at this time. It was the information that saved my life. Here is Vito Agueci asking me to make a meet with Vito Genovese and Vito Genovese tells me that he does not want to talk to Vito Agueci. Now I know why Vito Agueci asked me to make a meet with Vito Genovese. It was a plot Vito Genovese wanted to see if I would being him the message and when I did I must had shocked Vito Genovese. Boy I was fit to be sick. It was something that sent me in a daze. I couldn't even think straight that night when I went in the call. Vito Genovese called Ralph Wagner and I after the lights went out and he said that he did not want to go to bed. He said he felt like talking so we sat at the table and he started to talk and he was saying that he was talking to someone and this guy was telling him something. He was saying that it is a good thing that he is a good

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judge and he studies a guy when a guy is telling a story and it appeared to him that this guy was telling the truth and from this story that he Vito was saying he started to talk about a barrel of apples. He was saying you know we take a barrel of apples and in this barrel of apples there may be a bad apple. Well this apple would have to he removed and if it ain't removed it would hurt the rest of the apples and as he was talking no one could interrupt him - if anyone of us would try and say something he would wave his hand and by waving his hand he meant for us not to interrupt him while he was talking. All I was doing was shaking my head. He then said to me get up and I got up and he said that he knew me for a long time and I want to give you a kiss for old time sake and with that I grabbed him and I pulled him close to me and I gave hiin a kiss on the other side of the cheek and I went toward my bed and as Ralph slept on my left we almost went to our beds at the same time and Ralph mumbled to me and said in a low tone "the kiss of death." I ignored him and I laid on my bed. Who could sleep. I did not even look at Ralph I was just thinking and I could not figure out the whole conversation.

The next morning I did not go in the mess hall I went to work and I could not do my work right. All day I was trying to figure out the whole conversation, but I could not come to a conclusion at least not yet. Again I did not go

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and eat and as I was on the diet line I was a little worried because on the diet line they punch your card when I went and eat. They punch the card at every meal. All I would do was lay on the bed and he would ask me didn't you go and eat. I won't even answer him so he called me and he asmed me what is the matter why are you sore. I told him that I am just thinking. He asked me if he had said anything the night before that hurt my feelings. I said he did not hurt my feelings as the hat did not fit me. He said then why are you sore. I said I can only tell you one thing and that is that we are in jail just remember it that's all. Every one is acting funny and I don't care and I don't care to answer any questions either. Now I am talking to him just like I talk to anyone else. After we ate in the mess hall I went to the yard. Everyone that was in the cell went in the yard, only Vito Genovese stayed in the cell. As I was going to the yard I headed for the handball court and there was no one there. Gee I knew something was wrong but who could figure any more. Could it be that whenever there is something in the air everyone is in on it. I just was walking in a fog and I headed for the Bocci court and there was no one there. I stood there and I was looking around and before I knew it a whole bunch of guys appeared at the Bocci Court. Vito Agueci was about fifty feet away from me and he was sitting on a card table and there was the four big greaseballs - all about six feet tall - all had come from Sing Sing and they were new in the place and they were friends of Barcelona the fellow

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that had come in the mess hall and had introduced himself to me the time that he was sitting with Vito Genovese. He had introduced these greaseballs to me one at a time as we used to play Bocci ball. I'll say that I had met them in the last three weeks. The kid Porkey was there and then Barcelona himself appeared and Charlie Beck was there and I asked Barcelona what was he doing as he was standing at the rail of the Bocci court. He said that he was playing cards and that he came to see some action and as he had just finished his conversation with me Vito Agueci started to call me names. He was calling me so many names and he was talking in Italian. He was calling me a rat and a dog as he was calling me all these names I looked at the greaseballs and I notice that they were set as two of them had their right hand and it appeared to me and it was plain it was a knife. I was calm and I called Vito Agueci over to the Bocci court and I asked him to come over and have a game of Bocci. He was hesitating and Charlie Beck called him and yelled, "Come on Vito come and play you would play with me." With that he came and we started to play a game of Bocci. Charlie became Vito Agueci's partner and one of the greaseballs became my partner. We played a game of eight points. We shot a few balls and Charlie and Vito were ahead. They had four points and the next ball that we threw they had two more points but Charlie counted fast and he said one, two, three,

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four your lose he told me. I took the hint and I stepped on the side and while I was standing on the side Ralph Wagner came over and I ignored him as I had my eyes on everyone. Now a guard came over and he started to look at everyone. Things did not look right to him. Everyone had a suspicious look. Well the guard did not go away he stood there and I took the opportunity and instead of going near the guard I went to the toilets as they were about thirty feet away from the Bocci court and I saw one of the greaseballs go over to Porkey and ask him in Italian and he was holding his right-hand on his waistline and he had such a pale look and he asked Porkey should I get him and Porkey yelled out loud, "What are you asking me for" and I heard it. I was not doing anything on the toilet I was only stalling. If he the greaseball would had come my way I would had run as I would had a good lead but when Porkey walked away on him the greaseball did not know what to do. Now the whistle blew and it was time to go into the cell block. I waited for Vito Agueci and as he was with another guy I started to walk together with Vito and the other guy to make it look good that I did not hear him. I made conversation by asking Vito Agueci as he has no money why don't he come to the tailor shop and work he can earn some money and he can buy his cigarettes and what else he needs and then save some money because one is only allowed to spend fifteen dollars a month and in the tailor shop he can

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earn from thirty to forty dollars a month. We reached our desination. Vito Agueci went to A Block and I went to B Block and when I reached it I found Vito Genovese in the cell all by himself and he was speechless when he saw me he didn't have the nerve to ask me anything. I went and lay on my bed and I did not say anything.

The next morning I did not go for breakfast. I went straight to work and that afternoon about two o'clock I heard that they locked up Ralph Wagner and the other fellow that I had made friends in the cell but I think he was a phony too I forget his name so I would call him Boston as he came from Boston. Now when I came from the tailor shop instead of going in the mess hall I went straight to my cell without eating - who could eat. Of all the surprises I find Vito Genovese waiting by my door of the cell and he asked me what happened as I was coming down the tier. I told him you know what happened. He did not answer me. I said to myself how Vito when I am alone with him he keeps his mouth shut when I am alone with him. He is really got Ralph Wagner in the cell for his protection. I won't even raise my hands to him I would be ashamed of myself to do such a thing. I ain't looking for any reputation that is for dizzy kids like Ralph. While Vito was laying on his bed he asked me what did I think of the pinch. I told him that I am going to think it over all I know is that I

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had two friends and they both locked up. I must think about it and I let you know tonight what I think. He asked me why I did not go and eat and I told him I can't eat but I am warning you that I am not going to go nuts. He asked me what did I mean. I told him that I'll let you know tonight. He went out to the yard and I stayed in the cell and when he came in I told him how come my two friends went in the hole you know they are the only friends I have. I wanted to impress him that I really believe that Ralph is my friend. Now I tell him what happened at the Bocci court. I told him Vito I want to tell you something you think that you are outside do you know that Vito Agueci called me all kind of names. No he said he did not hear it. OK Vito I said I want to tell you that they are all dogs. I have been in jail before and that set up was for some square. Vito Agueci thought or the one who told him to do it thought that when he called me those names that I would go after him that is why he was forty or fifty feet away and if I did go after him for calling me names in the struggle and excitement one of the great brains that you had over at the Bocci court would had jabbed the knife in my back and it would had been all over and no one would had paid for it because there were so many guys over there but when I made believe that I did not hear Vito Agueci they did not know what to do. There was no one there that knew what to do they acted like idiots. They were waiting for the next order.

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Even Barcelona did not know what to do now I am going to turn this place upside down. You would see if any of them had any kind of brain. One of them would had told me why don't you answer the guy he is calling you a rat but they all remained dumbfounded and you should had seen their faces they were more scared that I was. See this cut that I got and I showed it to him by lifting up my shirt. Since I got this cut I don't jump at anyone who comes to me on a surprise. If anyone comes to me on a surprose like Vito Agueci called me names I would figure that something is wrong the guy must be prepared and I ain't. You should had seen them I told Vito Genovese the whole bunch of them stood there looking at one another. Now the guy who plotted that setup was way out of order. Vito Genovese himself did not want to say anything because he knew that I was right and I told him that you passed judgment on me without a trial. I could tell you plenty about Vito Agueci but I ain't going to tell anything. I just wanted to see how your good judgment would come out. All the boys on the outside know that Vito Agueci is no good. By now that is all what I would tell you because I am going to make up my mind as to what I am going to do. One thing I know that I will not be able to overcome what happened at the Bocci court and another thing Vito I told him that my bunk is being searched every night. I asked him if his bunk is being searched. He said he did not notice it. I think that this was a

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Friday night that I am talking about. I know for sure it was now a working day when I decided the next morning what I had to do. I did not sleep all night, I was going over the whole situation and I came to the conclusion that it is impossible to overcome what happened at the Bocci Court and I came to the conclusion that they locked up those two guys because they are ready to kill me. In the first place I had gotten a hint by someone but I dare not mention it twice, it was a guy that worked in the cell block. So by the next morning I felt like I was sick - no eating - so sleep and thinking my heart out. I was in a bad state of mind I must admit it. I went to the hospital but before I went to the hospital I had to get a pass from the guard in charge of the cell block that morning I went to him about seven o'clock in the morning. He gave me a pass for eight o'clock. All I was doing in the cell was having my legs up at the bar and laying there and waiting for eight o'clock to come. At eight o'clock I went to the hospital and the guard told me to sit down as there was no doctor in the hospital as he was late so I was waiting about a half hour when one of Vito Genovese's stooges come over to the hospital - he was Cripple Angelo. He asked me what was wrong. I told him to get out of here and it is none of your business. He ran like a deer. Now I started to think the boys have good connections in the hospital and they can get me very easily. All of a sudden I went to the guard and I

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told him to lock me up. He said that he cannot lock me up without a reason so I told him that I am going to take your name and put it in my brain. He said that if I gave him a good reason he would lock me up. First I spelled his name - I looked at his name as their names are on the left side of their chest. I went this way, "STIEN, OK." I said I'm going to kill someone or be killed is that a good enough reason? He said yes. Now I asked him is there a man that I can trust. He asked me what did I mean. I said I don't trust the Associate Warden. Is Lt. Williams working. He said no. Then I figured oh what's the difference I ain't going to say anything. Then I asked him as we were walking toward the Associate Warden's office can I see the Warden himself and he the guard said I don't know if ever you get a chance to see the Warden. Well I was so tired that I was just glad to go in the hole and sleep and think. I suppose I should tell you what is the hole. It is a big cell and there is just a toilet and a mattress on the floor. Well just as I got in the hole I went to sleep and I did not wake up until they came around with the food. They would wake me up and just as soon as they would leave I would throw the food in the toilet and I would go back to sleep. After I got loaded with sleep I started to think but the first night that I was in the hole it was late when the guard opened the door and told me that the Chief Parole Officer is here and if I want to talk to him. I said

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OK. I went out there and I was so tired that while I was talking to the Chief Parole Officer I was laying on the table with my head down. I asked the Parole Officer to get in touch with George Gaffney and he asked me who was he. I told him that he is in Washington. He wrote it down and he said this is between you and me. He said I can't call today but I would call Monday. I told him that I won't eat until he gets here. The Parole Officer told me that if I don't eat they would shove it down my throat. That's when I was going to grab the piece of paper and tear it up but I was so tired and so weak that I just did not care for anything. I was so tired of watching at every move that every inmate that came close to me. It was hell. No one would understand unless one goes through it. The parole officer went away and I went to sleep again. After I was there about three days I started to think and I could not remember if I told the Parole Officer anything. Anyway I did not hear anything so I forgot about it. I started to eat a little but not much and I was thinking of what Vito Agueci's brother told me at West Street if his brother Vito Agueci ever got mad at you and he makes up a story against you God help you. Run he told me. He is one in eight million Albert said. Boy now that I know that Vito Genovese spoke to Vito Agueci what chance do I have I won't even try to defend myself. According to Albert his brother is the best story maker on earth. I was thinking how I saved the dog Vito

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Agueci at Lewisburg when his own friend wanted to put a knife in his stomach. Well I said to myself I'll never learn. The guard opened the door and told me that I must shave. I said OK and when I went out to shave I saw Ralph Wagner and he acted surprised to see me. He asked me what was I doing in the hole. I asked him why are you in the hole. He said that he did not know so I told him you are in the hole because you are my friend and I told him when they locked you up I decided to come in too and I am going to blow my top. I told him that Vito Agueci called me everything and then I told him for the first time that Vito Agueci was in Westchester County and he must have made a deal with Frank Savaggie the agent and Ralph said yes I believe it because Gaffney told me that he wants to see you dead. I asked Ralph are you got a charge against you he said no. Well Ralph I'm finished only putting myself in the hole is enough. I'm dead and we just sold our life insurances. Boy you talked it in to me to come in that madhatter cell and he makes me walk around with Vito Agueci and he had talked to him all along. Ralph asked me how did I know that Vito Agueci had met Vito Genovese. I told him won't you like to know. Then Ralph said well in that case I'm with you. Cut it out Ralph I said if you get me mad I'll take it out on you. No Joe he said I'm going to tell the old man that Vito Agueci is no good when I get out of here. I don't care what you do I told him I'm not going out of here because

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if they don't get me I'm going to get one of them. How can I do time anymore I won't be able to live this down. I must act that's why I don't want to get out of here. He said that he don't blame me. Well if it works out that they come for me from New York the main thing would be that I would get out of here.

In about two days the Associate Warden sent for me and his name was Mr. Elliott and Ralph was there and the Associate Warden asked me if I care to get out of the hole and go back to my cell. I said that I did not want to get out of the hole but Ralph started to beg me he said don't be a fool I'm going to talk to the old man. What is this punk trying to tell me I said to myself he don't know that just putting myself in the hold is just like as if I was on the outside and I ran to a police station. I am feeling out Mr. Elliott and when he Mr. Elliott asked me if I said anything to the Chief Parole Officer I told him that when I came in the hold that I was in bad shape and I really did not know what I was doing if I was in my right senses. I would had never asked for George Gaffney but who was I going to get in touch with I ain't used to get in touch with any law enforcement. That was the only name that I knew and beside when George Gaffney called me at West Street he had told me after he offered me the armchair for the rest of my life if I join on his side if I change my mind I could call him as the offer that he gave me was always good. Anyway what I reall had

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in mind was to get out of Atlanta and then I would worry as to what I had to do but I wanted to get out of Atlanta alive. I told Mr. Elliott that if I did say something to the parole officer Mr. Squire can it be forgotten. He Mr. Elliot said yes and if anyone wants to kill you he said come and see me so I laughed and told him yes I would call you after I'm dead. So I came out of the hole and he Mr. Elliott asked me if I want to go back in Vito Genovese's cell I said why not. I knew I was in the middle so what was the difference so I went back to the cell.

The first thing that I told Vito Genovese was how they the agent put Vito Agueci on the bus with me they brought him from Westchester County just so that he would be with me and they the agents knew that if he Vito Agueci was with me when w go to prison no one would bother him. Vito Genovese told me he did not know that Vito Agueci was in Westchester County where they keep all the stool pigeons. Well I said you claim that you are a good judge and I know through what his brother Albert told me what kind of a storymaker he is who stands a chance he is made at me because I would not bring him to you and the reason why I did not bring him to you was because he is no good. The boys at West Street told me to be nice to him. I was nice to him but I can't stand that face of his and you did not give me a chance to defend myself so how can I

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overcome all the talk that he started and I know that you are backing him or do you think that he can get away for what he did if it wasn't for you and to prove it to you I'll grab him and I'll show you what a dog he is. He said do it I want to see what hbppens. OK I'll do it tomorrow I said and then he asked me if I told Ralph in the hole that he Vito Genovese talked to Vito Agueci. Sure I told Ralph. Then he asked me who told me. Sure a guy done me good now I'm going to tell you who the guy is so he can get into trouble no sir I'll due but I won't tell you. Then I told him that I know that I made you look bad by going in the hole but I'll make you look good I said by getting Vito Agueci. Fine he said do a good job but don't get caught and then he said if anyone asks you why did you go in the hole tell them on suspicion of escape. Where does that fit in I said. Well we don't want people to know that you went in the hole because you were afraid that they were going to kill you. Well anyway that night I went into the yard and I met all the boys and also Johnnie Dio. Now, Johnnie Dio was cute. He spoiled everything for Vito Genovese. He asked me that I should take a shower as he notice that I did not take my shower the day before. Now I could had asked Johnnie how come you notice that I did not take my shower but I did not and when he asked me to go the next day he could not look at me straight in the face. He was looking in the air when he was talking. Gee how I wish that we were on

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the outside world. What a yellow dog he is. He did not even have the nerve to look at me in the face. I told him sure Johnnie I'll come tomorrow and take my shower and I knew that Vito Agueci worked in the same place where Johnnie Dio worked I would had two yellow dogs to contend with but I knew that the both of them would not do anything they would have someone else there. I got so mad as I saw Vito Agueci about fifty or sixty feet away from where Johnnie Dio and I were standing that I walked to where Vito Agueci was and Johnnie Did not see me walk over to him. I called him on the side and I told him that I thought I heard you say something to me about a week ago what were you trying to tell me did you say something about a rat. He said God forbid. Gee I said I must have dreamed it I'm sorry. You sure I asked him that you did not say anything and as we were talking Big Solly came over and he asked is there anything wrong. No I said I asked this mutt if he tried to say something to me about five or six days ago. Now that I came out of the hole it dawned on me but the mutt swear that he did not say anything. OK I said. I walked away and Solly and Vito Agueci went walking around and I sneaked around a tree and I heard part of the conversation they were having. Solly was telling Vito Agueci that Joe is not right in the head lately and he ain't sure of himself so you see he was telling Vito he ain't sure. Well when I went in the cell the first thing that I told Vito Genovese

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just what I did and I told him that when I saw Vito Agueci I could not wait for tomorrow I had to grab him and Vito Genovese spit on the floor when he hears it but that was not going to go over my head. I had to watch every move but I did not tell Vito Genovese about Johnnie Dio asking me to go and take a shower. The following day I kept that to myself./p>

Before I go any further I want the reader to know that once a guy or inmate goes over and asked to be locked up they ain't supposed to turn the inmate lose but in this case the connection were working to get me out of the hole although I warned Mr. Elliott that if I get cut lose there would be a murder. All he said to me was if anyone wants to kill you get in touch with him. I told him OK I'll call you when I'm dead.

The day that I was supposed to go and get a shower I stayed in my cell all day. All that week we had a holiday. Once a year the tailor shop got a week and an inmate could go out in the yard or stay in his cell. After I explained everything to Vito Genovese as to why I did not want him to meet Vito Agueci I told him also that Vito Agueci wanted to get even with his boss in Buffalo because Vito Agueci was raving mad at the boss in Buffalo. He accused his boss of killing his brother Albert and Vito himself was marked for death. His brother Albert had told me before he went out on bail that if

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his boss does not bail out his brother Vito Agueci he was going to put his boss on the carpet. I warned him if he tried such a thing he won't live a month but he was a stubborn guy like his brother Vito and he must had tried to do what he threatened to do and the result was that he got himself killed. He was going to put his boss on the carpet by going to the other bosses and tell them that his boss in Buffalo was in the junk business as partners in the case that he went out on bail. He felt that as long as his boss was a partner his boss should had bailed he and his brother Vito so the two brothers were two of a kind. I told Vito Genovese Vito Agueci found a spot and I was the spot. I told Vito Genovese one thing for sure I told Vito Genovese that Vito Agueci got together with the agent Frank Savaggie at Westchester County; that he Vito Agueci would come to you and tell you all the stories he told you what could he had told you about me what would he know about me if the agent did not tell him. I did not know Vito Agueci on the outside. What would he know about me giving any information to the agent. The agents were mad at me because I refused to listen to them when they told me that you Vito Genovese was going to have me killed so the best thing to do they the agents told me was to join on their side if you don't believe me I told Vito when them guys come here from West Street you can ask them because I told them all about it. I told the boys at West Street that I was not going to tell you and still when you asked

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me to come in your cell I came. Sure I came because I did not do anything wrong when I went down the last time they the agents made me go back and forth from Atlanta to West Street and from West Street to Atlanta. I told Vito Genovese you don't know how the agents work. If I told them something would I come back to Atlanta knowing the junk agents. There is not a man alive that told them anything and it did not take long before they got killed even if the agents did tell Vito Agueci that I gave information what does it mean do you know I told Vito Genovese. They are trying to do the same thing to Vinnie Mauro. They had it in the papers that Vinnie Mauro goes to the DA everyday. Sure the agents know that we ain't supposed to fool around with junk. It ain't enough that they frame us now they want us killed by letting a stupid guy like Vito Agueci come to you and tell you stories. Now I want to do this with you Vito I told him prove what I did wrong and I'll take the pills and take my own life. Can you do it I asked again. He looked at Ralph and Ralph looked at him. All he said was get that guy Vito Agueci. I told him if I was looking to hide anything would I come and tell you that Vito Agueci wants to talk to you. I could had kept Vito Agueci away from you all I had to do was be nice to him but I figured why should I hang out with him so that everyone would think that I had something to do with him on the outside. What for? I figured why should I hang out with him if I

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had something to be nice to him for it would have been different but I had nothing to do with him on the outside. Let the ones that did business with him hang out with him why should I. All I know is that by me meeting these guys just for a few days in Canada I got myself a brand new twenty years and another thing they claim that their boss was in on the junk deal. What kind of men are they, they get arrested and they yell like a bunch of scared kids. Did I get any help when I got arrested in 1956 I did not have a dime. Did I yell that my boss Tony Bender was a partner of mine and he did not help me of course not but these guys get arrested just once look at all the noise that they made and you allowed a guy like Vito Agueci to come here and tell stories about me and if I don't know how to handle the situation I'd be dead. You see the way he dogged it Vito? I asked him how am I going to live this down? How am I going to do any time you go home and I got to live with these inmates and I am forced to go and get him and it means more trouble for what because he got a stupid idea in his head because he had asked me at West Street to have him meet you and you know what he wanted to tell you he wanted to tell you that Vinnie and Frank were guilty. I don't know what he told you about Tony Bender but one thing I want to tell you if Tony Bender had anything to do with the junk Frank and Vinnie were not yelling on West Street that their boss was in on the deal like the Agueci Brothers were doing. Well Vito I told him again

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if anyone wants them kind of guys in their company they can have them it just so happened that I got all enemies in this joint and you encourage them and that's all there is to it. I saw dogs in my life I said to myself but none would match these dogs. It looked as though Vito Genovese saw the light but I said to myself what if Mr. Squire the Chief Parole Officer should let Vito Genovese know that I asked to get in touch with Gaffney. Well I said to myself I must sit back and see if anything happened. It would be in a couple of days so I better stall Vito Genovese about getting Vito Agueci. If it comes out that I tried to get in touch with Gaffney them I'm dead and if I'm going to die then I'll try and get the guy that made all this trouble Johnnie Dio or Joe Beck, either one. After all I did not know what I was doing but I can't tell them. I mean Vito Genovese. After all I figured that I was going to die and branded as a rat so I might as well do something and at least I'll die for something. We can never be the same. I would never forgive them. They had no business to be listening to a guy that don't even know how to talk English. Well I guess Mike Coppola is getting even on me. He did not like me and I did not like him through the years and the rest of them are Albert men so I was fixed good. Who am I going to blame, my boss Vito Genovese for allowing all this stuff to happen - no I would never forgive him I said to myself. And the other punk Ralph Wagner is looking to hide his own sins by giving me up

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at the trailer camp the first time I got arrested. OK Vito I reasoned if the Chief Parole Officer let's you know that I wanted to get in touch with Gaffney then it would be too bad for both of us. I'm sure I'm going to be killed and I got into this jam because he Vito Genovese listened to a bum like Vito Agueci and not forgetting Ralph Wagner and Vito Genovese took my business. Well I am getting bitterer and bitterer as I think about it I can't go back in the hole as between the mob and Mr. Elliott it is all one. I'll do some damage and then I'll bum in the Electric Chair. I must defend myself at any cost. I ran to the officer and I got into a worse jam. All week I was thinking and Ralph Wagner pulled a boner one night. We were laying on our beds as the lights had just gone out - Ralph got up and he went to Vito's bed and when he got back he said to me that he just told Vito that if it was he that they called a rat he would go after the guy regardless whether the guy denied it or not. Yes I answered I'm yellow. What can I do. Oh he said he did not mean it that way but my dear Ralph did not know that I knew it was not his idea that Vito must had put him up to do it because I know that Vito realized that he made a mistake and he is trying to straighten it out on my expense by me getting Vito Agueci. Yes my dear Ralph Joe is thinking different he is thinking that Vito Genovese put me in this situation and I am ruined. Well Joe is thinking you ruin me he is going to ruin you and if I kill you Vito Genovese it

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would be no good you made me a rat. Well I'm going to be one after I get one of the main guys - not the mope Vito Agueci - so I got up and I went to Vito's bed and I told him that I must take my time in getting Vito Agueci. He said OK but don't get caught. I told him this phony story that I must take my time to stall for my own life. I figured that while they are waiting for me to get Vito Agueci I have time to find out if the Parole Officer had sent out word sure enough. I said to myself I'll go in the yard and I'll see if I can hear anything. Well, well one guy calls me and he said that he wanted to talk to me so we went on the side and we started to talk. He said that I must tell him the truth he said if I said anything while in the hole I should tell him. I told him that I did not know if I said anything and if he knew if I said anything he should tell me and he said if I sis not hear something why would I be asking you but he said I want to know if I said anything. Well first I want to know why you want to know and he said that he would tell me what to do if I said anything. I said you ain't good enough to tell me what to do. Now let me ask you a question do you know why I went in the hole. He said no he did not and you want to tell me what to do my friend I said they don't tell you anything. You are not in a position to tell me what to do. Now I ask you another question did Vito Agueci call me any names at the Bocci Court. He said no. Well boy I told him they handled this thing all wrong and if I tell you anything you would have to report it so why don't you just leave everything the way it is and if you

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are involved in the contract to get me go ahead and do your duty don't worry about me I'll take care of myself. Then he asked me if I expected the agents to come here in Atlanta. I asked him why are the agents going to come here he said that is what he heard. I said Joe Beck hears too many things. The best thing for you to do I told him tell them that you could not get anything out of me and you put yourself in the clear. I'm doing this for your own benefit believe me you would find out that I steered you right. One thing I want to tell you I did not do anything wrong I could tell you a lot but there are personal feelings involved in this case and they sent you to talk to me. I said Solly I know you were on their side right along. I made you believe that I believed that you were sincere all along and the only reason why I did was one that I know you must take orders and you have no choice, two, I stole information from you didn't you notice that I never paid attention to you when you used to knock Joe Beck or Vito Genovese. Didn't you get wise when we were walking and we met Pete and Pete said to me don't worry Joe everything would be alright in the end. Remember that Solly I said. Gee it is hard for an outsider to try and trap a mob guy. I knew what Pete meant, he meant that you were playing my friend but as I sai I forgive you because I know what it is all about. See what I mean. He patted me on my leg and he said I wish you luck. You see what I mean, I ain't no good no more after I put myself in the hole and I must tell you that I am looking at you as I am

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talking to you I must be on my guard I expect you to be one of the guys to have the contract to come and get me. See how much I know OK. He smiled and he walked away. Take care of Joe Beck I told him as he walked away. When he left me I saw him go and meet Joe Beck far away. One could not help noticing it as he was a very tall man and Joe Beck was less than five feet so Joe Beck thought he had brains. I saw him in the mess hall once and he and Mike Coppola were sitting and they were so busy talking that they did not notice me standing right along side of them and one of the boys saw it all but he had no chance to warn them so I laughed at the mob guy and he laughed also. They looked like two old women bent over and busy talking.

Well that was the last appearance I made in the yard I knew from then on that they would be out for me. I'll watch Vito Genovese's action when he comes in the cell and from what Solly asked me it was sure now that Mr. Squire had informed the inmates that is the connection and it was not Vito Genovese himself. He Vito had an in between man get the word. After all I did not feel well when I went in the hole and that was no excuse for me to do what I did so I must go all the way. That night Vito Genovese showed nothing to raise my suspicion and as that night they had on a special movie - it was not Saturday or Sunday as that is the only time we had movies and sometimes on a holiday and Vito asked me

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if I wanted to go to the movie that was the first time that he asked me if I wanted to go to a movie. I told him very cold that I did not want to go to the movies and the biggest mistake that he made was that he made the guy that went with him to the movie tell me that there were none of the boys at the movies so I asked the guy why are you telling me that there was no one at the movies. The guy was stuck, he did not know what to tell me he could not tell me that Vito told him to tell me. This fellow was one of our cellmates and he never went to the movies with Vito and we never talked in front of him and now he is telling me that there were no boys at the movies. Vito wanted me to know that he meant no harm when he asked me if I wanted to go to the movies. About an hour later Vito asked me if I wanted a piece of candy as he knew that I like candy. I said no thanks I don't want any candy. During the night as we were playing cards he asked me if I was going out in the yard the following day. I said yes that I was but the next day I did not go to the yard I stayed in all day and I did not go and eat as I was in the cell I had a broom handle in between the bars at the bottom of the door so that if someone tried to sneak in the cell while I was dozing because I was always tired because I had to watch myself at all times. No one bothered me and that night Vito came in the cell and he looked very mad and he asked me he thought that I was going to the yard. I told him that I did not feel good but

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tomorrow for sure I‘il be in the yard and bright and eariy and now he asked me if I want to play cards. I told him sure I want to play, anything you say, I told him. Now I'm getting cockey and I don't care how I talk to him. Ralph was looking at me and I was looking at him with a sneer, I was fresh to everyone that night. Sure I was fresh I had enough time. Now I must go out and get one of the guys or they would get me. I did not want Vito himself because I wanted him alive so that I can do just what I'm doing and what I'm doing would kill him and next time if he ever gets a chance for a next time he'll be a better judge than he was in my case. Of course my cell was searched again that day. I say that day because it was the last day that I spent in that cell and when I say my cell was searched I mean my bunk as I said we were eight in one cell. It was about eight thirty when Vito asked me to play cards. I asked him if his cell, sorry I mean bunk, searched and he said no. Then I said OK let's play cards. I played for about one hour and then all of a sudden I threw the cards on the table and I said I don’t want to play cards any more I'm tired and I want to go to sleep. I went and laid on my bed and I started to think. He Vito wanted me to go to the moview and he wanted to give me a piece of candy. Now if that candy was OK and when I refused he wouid had put it in his mouth to show good faith but he just laid it on the desk at the side of his bed but he did not because I made it my business to watch where he laid it after I refused and Ralph had a disappointed look when

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I refused. There was four that I had to watch in the cell - there was Cripple Angelo, Ralph, Boston and the guy that used to serve him but I did not care if he had the whole cell. I must tell the truth at that moment I was a wild man even though I did feel weak from not eating. Who could eat anyway with what I had on my mind. Ralph turned his back on me and he went to sleep. The old man did not sleep most of the night. I know because I did not sleep at all. I must say just what was going through my mind here they are they know that I spoke to the Chief Parole Officer and they are sure that I ain't going to do any harm because they have in their mind that tomorrow I'll get it but they did not think that I may get one of them or if they are what they are supposed to be why don't they get me tonight. No they have someone else to depend on. I was alone and I must act and if I don't, not only that I'll die but I have no one to do it for me and to me it was an old story. I went through it on the outside. I was always on the side of the under dog here they are about twenty-five of them and if they need more help they can get at least fifty more. There was about ninety New Yorkers, not counting the boys that came from other towns. All Vito had to do was sent out word but as I say everyone depends on everyone else to take care of me and the result would be that I am going to get one or two of them. No not Vito Genovese, not even Ralph or Vito Agueci. Ralph I said to myself they will find out that he is

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a one hundred per cent stoolie. Vito Agueci the people on the outside know that he is another stoolie. Now Vito Genovese must live he got to find out that he caused me to do what I am doing. I'm being a rat the way he wanted me to die branded as a rat. Well Vito I said to myself this would put an end to the things that you have been doing all of your life to avoid having them brought before the councilmen. He just has them killed and then he yells Rat. This is an old story now if anyone can tell me that I had any other choice I would like to know. If I go to Mr. Elliott I'm ruined as I told you I went to him and he turned me loose. If I keep my mouth shut I have already been branded and I would never be able to live through it. Mr. Squire had sent out word that I wanted to get in touch with Washington. All of this stuff was going through my mind so I figured that in the morning I would go and hang out near the construction and the first one that I would see I would get. Over and over all this was going through my mind. Then whatever happens let it happen but I want to give them the surprise of their lives but I must be careful I said to myself and I better be out of my cell early but by the the time five o'clock in the morning came around I was looking at Vito Genovese and I was getting mad. I happened to look around the cell and I notice that the shovel was replaced by a smaller one. Every cell has a shovel and they are all the same size - they are about one foot wide and the new one is about four inches

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wide, I went to the shovel and I started to play with it and I was saying loud enough for everyone to hear, "What do you know not only they search my bunk but they even change the shovel, boy oh boy." No one even moved. I went to the mess hall about six o'clock to see if I can find something but the way all the New Yorkers were looking at me I took no chances and I went right back to the cell and I laid on my bed. I was waiting for everyone to leave until Vito and I remained alone. He stood about five minutes with me and as he was leaving I called him and I waved with my hand and said to him, "Goodbye Coupe Goodbye." He just looked and said nothing and went out of the cell block. I waited about ten minutes and I went out. I went to the far end of the yard - I'll say it was about 7:15 or 20. I walked from one end of the yard to the other end - say at least twice and I could see no one. I saw three inmates near the baseball grand stand but when I looked again I did not see them but I was looking towards the construction building at the same time in case they should come from the grand stand I'll have something to grab. I sort of backed up and I was looking both ways. I see a piece of pipe laying on the floor near the construction building. Boy I said to myself this is good now let them come. I swear I was seeing heads peeping from the baseball grand stand. It was the part of the grand stand where everyone runs when it rains and it had a shed overhead and they had a good place to hide but they

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must watch the guard on the tower and they ain't going to have much of a chance and they are going to wait for me to talk towards the other side of the yard but I stopped. I did not walk I was just going ten feet one way and ten feet the other way. Two guys pass my way and one of them said Hello to me and he passed about six feet when I said to myself Oh its Joe Beck. I ran for the pipe and I went to work on him. As I was raising the pipe I looked towards the grand stand and I see three guys running my way. I started to meet them but they ran back and I went to the guy that I hit again but again the three guys come towards me and again I ran toward them and again they ran back. By this time the guard came running toward me. I saw the guard come my way but I did not care for him I kept looking toward the grand stand and the guard asked me for the pipe. I told him not to try and take my pipe. I told him that I would carry it until I get to Mr. Elliott. He said again give me the pipe. This time I looked toward the grandstand again and again the three guys were trying to sneak up on me even though the guard was walking with me. When they realized that I saw them and I still had the pipe in my hand they walked away. I wasn't going to tell the guard that the reason why I wouldn't give him the pipe was because three guys were trying to get me. I was walking with the guard and I was looking all around at the same time. Now when I reached the Associate Warden's office I saw Mr. Elliott

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sitting there and I threw the pipe at him and I said that they are carrying a guy to the hospital and it ain't me surprised I told him. He looked and he asked me what happened. I told him that I had no time to call him. He said OK sit over there. He went out of the office and he came back in about fifteen minutes and he threw a picture at me and he said do you know him. I said no. He threw another picture at me and he asked me if I know him. It was Joe Beck. Gee I said to myself I thought the first picture that he threw at me was Joe Beck. Gee I got confused. I thought he was up to something. I did not know what he was up to. Then he said the first guy that I showed you is the guy you hit but you made a mistake you meant to hit Joe Beck. I know what's going on in this joint but he told me don't worry. I told him this is all your fault or Mr. Squire's. Do you remember when you asked me the first time that I came in the hole if I had said anything to the Chief Parole officer. Yes he said he remembered. Well I said it got out to the connection. I know he said I told you that I was in bad shape when I came here the first time. See what happened I told him. He said I know but don't worry the guy ain't dead and he won't die. He said I'll put you in the hole and I'll call you tomorrow night. I went in the hole and again I started to lay off the food. The following day it was at night and it was a Saturday night and he had an FBI agent in the office and he wanted a story. I told him that I did not remember anything.

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He had already told me that he was keeping the guy alive and I asked him to tell me the truth, who did I hit. He told me that he told me the truth and he called a guard from the outside office and he told the guard tell Joe who did he hurt and the guard told me the guy's name and Mr. Elliott said I want to tell you that I make a mistake myself between these two guys and he showed me their record. One guy weighs one hundred ten pounds and the other one was one hundred and ten pounds and a half, both of them bald, both of them wore eye glasses and both of them the same height and both of them skinny. Now if this fellow don't say to me Hello Joe I would had not bothered him as in my nervousness watching the grand stand I did not see this guy passing until he said Hello as he passed me. As soon as I heard someone say Hello to me I turned and I saw Joe Beck. He even talked like Joe Beck that was the way Joe Beck would say Hello to me but one thing the reader must take notice, he Mr. Elliott already knew that there was something wrong between Joe Beck and me and I want the reader also to take notice that he Mr. Elliott meant that if the guy stays alive 72 hours I can't be charged with murder it would be manslaughter but when I told him that I did not remember anything he got mad at me. By this time the guy was kept alive 50 hours although I know that the guy was dead on arrival to the hospital. When Mr. Elliott came back on Monday and I found out that he was in the office I requested to see him and he sent for me the first thing that I asked him was why did you let the guy die

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and he said to me that I lost him. When I told him that I did not remember anything I told him that the reason why I told him that I did not remember was because he had the FBI there. He Mr. Elliott told me that I told you that the FBI was OK. Well who can keep up with these guys. Now he tells me that he is going to burn me and I told him is that what the boys want that I burn. He did not answer me and he sent me upstairs in the hole. When I was in the hole I was thinking, Gee I done business with cops but never would a cop involve himself in a murder like Mr. Squire, boy oh boy. I said to myself Mr. Squire should be held as an accessary before the facts. I even told the Senators at the private session Mr. Elliott was in a hurry - in a couple of days he had me indicted for first degree murder and the first day that I went to court he made me walk with one guard to the Clothes Room and there wasn't a soul in the Clothes Room and when I got into the bus there was two Marshals on the bus and one of them told me, "Joe used to be an agent." Yes I said I heard you and I asked him did he know me and he said no that he worked in Florida and that was all that was said. When I got back to the prison Mr. Elliott said to me, "Hey Joe I hear that you were talking to Gaffney’s assistant." I told him Mr. Elliott you are a troublemaker. Now you are going to tell the inmates that I spoke to Gaffney's assistant. Gee what kind of a guy are you how in the world can you do such a thing you sound like a mob guy. You make up stories, The next time I went to court I met the same

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two Marshals and the first thing that I asked the Marshal that spoke to me, "Are you Gaffney's assistant?" He said that he did not even know Gaffney. Now I said one of you punks told Mr. Elliott that I spoke to Gaffney's assistant and he said that he did not see Elliott. The second Marshal got out of the bus and I never saw him again. When I went back to the prison I told Elliott that I grabbed the Marshals and I raised hell. He did not answer me and I went in the hole nunbling it looks like the more stories that they tell the inmates the more money they get. I had asked the judge to give me permission to make a call to a lawyer in New York and they had an officer there who greeted me when I came back from the court and he looked like Al Capone. He told Elliott make this guy make a call. The D.A. called and he told him that I asked the judge permission to make a call and he looked mad. When I did make the call I told the lawyer to come and see me in Atlanta. He said OK but I did not hear from the lawyer for a week until one night at about 11:30 a Lt. Williams came over to my cell and he told me that the Warden himself had given him a letter to give to me and he told me that if I want to answer the letter right at that moment he would be back in ten minutes. I read the letter and it was from the lawyer and he told me in the letter that I first call him to come and see me and then the Warden calls him and tells him that he the lawyer should not come up. I guess when the Warden read the letter he felt that he did not call the lawyer he knew that it was Al Capone, the acting Warden. I don't remember the

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acting warden's name that's why I call him Al Capone. He acted like a mob guy instead of acting warden. A few days after I answered the letter to the lawyer he came and saw me but could not take the case because it was too far for him. In the meantime I met an inmate in the hole who hated the mob and he made friends with me. It took about ten days before I trusted him. He saw that I was not eating I was getting along on what little I could buy in the prison commissary. One night he notice that I was wobbling and he asked me what was wrong. I told him that I was not eating. I was afraid that they would poison the food. He said he would take care of it for me so instead of giving me my food he would give me someone else's food. He did that until I went away 42 days later. I became very close to him and he was trying to help me. I asked him why he was in the hole and he told me that he put himself in the hole because he was afraid that he would kill someone. I asked him how long are you in the hole he said six months as he was in prison six years and the same people that I had trouble with were getting on his nerves and I want to do anything for you he said because you are the first guy in my six years in this prison that I met that defied these guys. They are hard to bear and I want to tell you he told me I have friends out there and they are trying to get me to to give you a message but I refused. Good I told him I told him to check on everyone who comes in the hole, He said don't worry I am

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already doing it and if any if them come in the hole I have a pipe hidden and I'll show you where it is when you come out to take a shower. Fine I said. In about two days a couple of guys came in the hole and they told this guy that I made friends with, I would call him Charlie because I cannot put his right name in here as it won't be fair - well these two guys told Charlie that they want to talk to me. I asked Charlie to check on them and if they are OK I'll talk to them. Charlie said they were OK so when they went for their shower they came to my cell and they told me that they saw the whole thing come off and that I just made it. They said if I want them for witnesses they would be glad to come to court. They said they also hate the mob. They told me that the three guys that were in the grandstand were hiding there for about ten to fifteen minutes. They were waiting for a chance to get at you and when you did grab that guy they ran after you a couple of times and you ran them bowlegged and they gave me the names of the three guys. One guy was Solly just the way I told him that he would get the contract. Another guy was a tall kid that came from my neighborhood and the third guy was a guy by the name of Cruadtre - it was a hard name. Tony was the third one. Now I raised Tony. Look who they send that is the reason why I made it. Yes Joe Beck you had to do better than the way you handled it and your brother Charlie should leave Tony alone he is not cut out

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for that kind of stuff but I guess Tony would had gone out into the world and would had bragged that he was in on the killing of Joe Cargo. The rat it had to catch up with Vito Genovese he used this trick too many times. I came here where I am and I find out that he Vito Genovese works with the law although I'm not surprised at all he works with the law in Atlanta having Ralph and Boston put in the hole and having my bunk searched for the last ten days that I was there. He worked with the law in 1938 in Italy as I told you about it. I would not say something if I thought it had no weight but an arresting officer told me and he proved it to me. I am a Rat yes Vito I am after I found out the way you operate and again I tell you what has happened to you. Did you really think that I was going to get Vito Agueci. I'm sixty years old and at that time I was fifty-eight, did you really think that I would had cleaned up your mess? What were you going to do with me let me live in jail after you branded me. No Vito why didn't you give me a chance? Why did you lie when I told you that Vito Agueci wanted to talk to you and you said no. Can you imagine how I felt when I found out that you had already spoken to him and you let me walk around with Vito Agueci so you could see who he was. Look at the fool you made out of me. What a laugh you and Mike must have had, you fool. I forgot you old fool. This friend that I met in the hole asked me if I want him to get in touch with a friend of his in Washington.

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I told him to go ahead. He said it was none of his business as to what I'll do all he knew that all of the mob is no good and I hope you will get them all -- break it up he told me. I told him to go ahead and send a message to Washington. His friend's name was McShane but McShane was in Europe at the time so he wrote to the Attorney General's office. He wrote by code. I told him that I want to burn so he Charlie told me not to let him write to anyone if you want to burn. So I told him that Elliott is steaming up the whole thing. He is putting on the fire on the other end and I ain't doing anything wrong. I want to get out of here but Elliott is making me mad. They are going to call me to court again and when I go to court I am going to tell him once and for all. Charlie asked me when am I going to court. I told him the court wants to assign two lawyers to me but as I was talking to Charlie I was called downstairs by Elliott. This time he talked nice. He said if I let him make up a story and I sign it he would get me small time. I told him that I don't intend to talk if you are on the level go ahead and write anything you want to. He said I got the FBI over here in the next building. I told Elliott if you want to ruin those guys just double cross me and if you do I am going to blame you. I'm going to blame the boys. He asked me what boys I told him that you Elliott are dying for me to mention some name so you can run out there with another story. All you are doing is making trouble. He asked me is it

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Vito Genovese that I had the trouble with. I told him did I mention Vito Genovese? Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? Did I say or do anything wrong? Did you look at my record if I did anything wrong in New York? Did you check, you are in a position to check, why don't you? He said he did and he finds nothing wrong. He can't understand it why don't you tell me he said. I told him let your friends tell you what it is all about. Did you find out why I came in the hole the first time. He said no why don't you tell me. I said I ain't telling you anything -- after you accuse me of talking to Gaffney’s man and I don't mind if it was true but you guys are making all the trouble. If you don't let them know that I tried to get in touch with Washington this would not have happened. He said that is what I'm afraid of -- that you will go down to New York and you will talk about me and my men. I made a mistake by letting you out of the hole the first time. Now if I don't have something to cover myself you are going to do just what I fear. Too bad I said. Listen carefully I said I ain't going to do anything wrong but if you dump me then I am going to do just what you fear. Ok he said I'll call the FBI and you sign in front of them. I asked him what would be the charge. He said he will tell the D.A. to bring it down to manslaughter. So he pulled out a statement - something about escape and I signed it and I went upstairs. When I told Charlie about it he told me that I should not had done it. Charlie said he would dump me.

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I told Charlie to look out the window and see if Elliott goes in the Green House - that is where the connection is. If he goes anywhere he would go in the Green House and Charlie can see right in the Green House from upstairs. I told Charlie to stay near the window and you will se that he goes there. Sure enough about two hours later Charlie came to my cell and he told me Gee you sure know what you are talking about - he went in the Green House and Elliott spoke to Pete for a half hour. Sure I said the mob is going to make up my sentence. You see I said to Charlie they call me to go to court in about two or three days and he Elliott had only one guard to take me across the yard and I must go in the dark Clothes Room. I turned around and I went upstairs and I told them if they want me to go to court tell them to carry me. I ain't going across the yard with one guard, And a guard that came after me told me in a low voice that he did not blame me. Even the guard don't like the idea of crossing the yard alone. So they brought me upstairs in another room and the guard went and got my clothes over at the Clothes Room and he brought them across the yard. Now there was a guy standing across the way and he was an Indian - he came from Boston and I remember that he plaved Bocci with Vito Genovese and he was Vito's partner. He had his arms folded and he was standing there with a sneer. I looked at him and I happened to be standing by an ash tray and it was made out of iron - I felt

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it and it was heavy. The guard saw him standing there and the Indian thought that I was going to tell the guard about it. I said to myself that he is trying to put up a grandstand play and I kept staring at him as if to tell him to come over but he just stood there and he kept staring. I passed by him and I did not show any sign of being scared as I did not have any handcuffs on as I made a beef about it. I told Elliott once before that they need not put handcuffs on me until I am ready to leave the building. He always asked me who am I afraid of and I always told him I need to protect myself. They are making funny moves but I won't tell Elliott. When I came back I told Charlie to look at the window and see when Vito comes out of his cell if he talks to an Indian. I told Charlie about the Indian and Charlie said he knew the Indian and the Indian came from Boston and he Charlie said that he saw him walking with Vito the other night. Now it was time for the inmates to come out of their cells and go into the yard. I looked out on one side and Charlie looked on the other side and he told me that Vito was coming out of the cell block and he is walking with Ralph and when they reached the yard Vito left Ralph and he met the Indian. Gee Charlie said you certainly are keeping your eyes open. The next day Ralph Wagner was put in the hole again and he sent word out to me as I was downstairs but I had moved upstairs and the guy told Ralph that I ain't downstairs any more so Ralph let me know that he was in the hole. He sent for a couple of packs of cigarettes but I need not act anymore now is the time to let him know that I did not trust him so I sent

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word to Ralph to get the cigarettes from Vito. That same night Ralph was let out of the hole so Charlie and I figured that he was put in the hole to see my reaction. This time he got the real reaction. My friend said he looked like a rat. I said to Charlie I did not want to put you in trouble or I would had played up to Ralph and we would had went to work on him just to show him that I was wise to him all along.

Now Elliott calls me down and he tells me that he is going to burn me. I asked him is this what the mob wants and he said yes. Boy I thought that the underworld was bad this guy Ellicott is a monster. I think he belongs to the Cosa Nostra. I bet he is a member I said to myself. Holly Gee I said. I told Charlie to send out word to Washington I'm up against a mob guy, I told Charlie. Now they move Vito Genovese out of Atlanta and they take him out four o'clock in the morning and they shipped him to Leavenworth. Ellicott calls me down and he tells me that they took Vito out of Atlanta. I asked him if he was going to blame me. I said to him that he can't say that I said anything about Vito and he said unless I got work out. How am I going to get out any word when you have me all tied up I can't move. I send letters home and they don't get out. What kind of a joint is this anyway? He winked at me.

Well the court assigned two lawyers to me and they were nice guys but

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they asked me a lot of questions and they told me that they were going to call the lawyer in New York. I wanted to give these lawyers some money but they said they wanted to see what it is all about. After a few days they came and see me and they said that the judge sent for them and the judge told them to warn me not to stand trial because there is something funny about this case and he the judge does not want to burn me but he the judge is afraid that if I stand trial and they will find me guilty the judge would have no choice so he begs me not to stand trial. I told the lawyer that I want to stand trial and I don't care if I burn because I want to blast all of Atlanta. I tell the lawyers that I have a couple of witnesses that would tell and named these three guys that ran after me and I beat them to the punch. They said that they would come back again. I must go to a psychiatrist first. I would have to go to town. OK I said. Now the priest comes and see me and he tells me that he has a message for me. He asked me if know a certain inmate. I did not know him, Anyway what is the message I asked him. He said to tell you that he is sorry that he could not meet you the morning I hit that fellow. Father I told him what are you trying to tell me am I hearing things. He said I am only telling you what I was supposed to tell you. Father I told him I was brought up in the Catholic Protectory and the priests get no pay for their service. Now I must ask you Father do you get paid by the Government or do you work for nothing. He said that he works for the

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government. Gee Father I am disappointed in you to bring me such a message, I told you I don't know that man and why does he want to be involved with me. Who is this guy and where does he come from. The Priest tells me that he is a Southerner and he is doing fifteen years. Well Father I told him I don't know what it is all about but I swear to you before God that I don't know that man. I asked the Priest to bring him to me whoever he is. He said he cannot bring him to me because it is between him and the inmate. Well Father I said I don't know what to tell you. Gee I said what a joint everybody is crazy here. Oh my God I said to Charlie an inmate wants to involve himself in this case -- I give up. Charlie asked me if I knew the guy. I said no but can you imagine a Priest bringing me such a message. Charlie said he gives up too he did not know what to make out of it. Later I'll tell the readers why this fellow sent a message to me. I cannot tell you now because it took a couple of months for me to find out why he the inmate sent me that phony message. I'm telling the reader that I went through some deal with this case. I did not know there was so many crazy people around. Well they take me to a psychiatrist in town and he spoke to me for about two hours and he sent me back to the prison and there was a question that Ellicott has been asking me all along and I forgot what it was. The next day the psychiatrist comes to the prison and he sent for me and I was shocked to learn that he belongs to the

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prison. Well I asked what are you doing here? He asked me the question that Ellicott had asked me. Boy I ran him out of the Prison and he said that he was going to give me a bad report. Boy I said this Atlanta is a mad town. Oh God I told Charlie everyone in Atlanta is crooked. You mean to tell me I told Charlie that they get away with this kind of stuff. Boy and the government pays these people to run this prison. Gee it looks as though the only one who is hones here is the Warden and he ain't never here. Looks like Ellicott keeps him busy going here and there so that the Warden does not know what is going on. What a mess I told Charlie but Charlie said don't worry if you live and you get out of here you would fix them. I told him we must contact the Attorney General. He is the only one who would go after this mob. Boy oh boy it is a good thing that Kennedy won the election or I would give up, I said to Charlie. I kept shaking my head and Charlie said don't worry I'll get you to the A.G. I hope so I told him.

Before I forget, I must tell you readers the Priest told me when he left as he was walking out of my cell that if I don't do what Ellicott tells me to do I am going to do no good. I asked well what does Ellicott want me to do. He the Priest told me just keep your mouth shut and if anyone thinks that I am making up such a story well I must say I won't pick on a Priest it is the truth - so help me God and I would like to see the Priest deny it. I said it was a good thing that

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Kennedy won the election. Let us tell you why I said it. When the election was going on as I must tell you the truth I never did mind or get interested as to whom was elected but as this was an important election it did not mean anything to me but I would hear them - Joe Beck, John Dio, Frank Costello, Vito Genovese - all rooting for anyone but Kennedy and all I would hear that if Kennedy is elected, especially Johnnie Dio, we would be ruined. Of course Johnnie Dio was worrying about his buddy Hoffa, as I said all he would talk about was Hoffa. Well when Kennedy got elected there was a morgue in Atlanta. You would think that they were on the outside. The only one that did not say much was Frank Costello. Of course I would had never made a move like I did if it was not for Kennedy. After all that is the way I felt and I wanted to make sure before I moved as to what I was doing. I did not worry about my life but I wanted to see this thing through. I wanted to break it all up once and for all. I knew what happened to a couple of guys that tried to hang some of the bosses - they never made it. I told you about three or four of them who tried it what happened and Charlie agreed with me. I was the most bitter man on earth. Who could blame me - to be mistreated by the worse punks on earth it was hard to take and who caused it all - the dear old man. Gee someone may want to know how come after what happened to me that I made up my mind to do what I am doing. What is the difference what caused it so long as I am here. The thing is to get some

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one. He must have a reason and again I say what is the difference as long as I am here. I don't need to say how I felt when I heard what happened to the President. Well all I know we lost a fighting man.

The lawyer came and saw me again and they told me that if I don't do as they say they would get off the case. I told them OK with me. They told me they don't want it on their record that someone burned in the electric chair and they defended the man it is not good to have it on our record. They said I'm not going to plea guilty. I said the judge means well but I don't care about the electric chair. I said as long as I get a chance to blast this joint - now I'm sore at the officials. I told the lawyer they made more trouble for me than the inmates. One of the lawyers was an FBI man for 13 years and he said that he understood me but you got thirty-seven witnesses against you he said but I don't care I told him again. I like you I told him so get yourself off the case. I'm sorry there is nothing for me to live for so I don't care. He said he would get on his knees if I would do what he tells me. I said no good. Well they went away and he came back in two hours and again he pleaded with me and again I refused. Well to make it short - he came back two more times so that made it four or five times that they came all in one day - after all it was only about a half hour drive from their office to Atlanta prison as Atlanta is right in the heart of the City - in fact right in front of the front office there is a trolley line. They said they see me

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in court. I asked them why are they rushing this case. That is what we are trying to tell you. I asked them in the name of God tell me the truth is this case being pushed by someone. They said yes do as we say they said where there is life there is hope. Did you try and get in touch with someone they asked me. I said yes but I don't know if the message got out. I was even afraid to trust the lawyers as Charlie told me not to trust them over here they all one. Charlie said you not kidding. I told him we would wait a little longer. I took the names of my witnesses but I did not give the lawyers their names. I was afraid of giving the names. I was in a mess I could not trust no one. No word from New York so I wasn't taking any chances.

That night a guard came on duty that I had made friends at the Bocci court because he liked the way I played. He told me why didn't I go to him when I went in the hole the first time I would had seen to it that they don't cut you lose. I told him that I thought of him but I did not know where to find him and besides I did not know his name as I was not that close to him. We were just friendly to one another. He told me that he don't care for the job. He said that he is on retirement on another job and he took this job to earn some extra money and he did not like crooked officials. I told him I wish I knew. I would not be in this jam. I had to do what I did or they would had got me. I heard about it he said. I hear that

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three guys ran after you with knives. I said that I just made it and it was an act of someone that I saw that pipe or God knows what would had happened. How did you like it I said I wish I would had thought of you but I didn't know I was in a fog. Thanks any way I told him. He was so nice to me. After all there is someone here I said that is OK. Gee I told him the whole joint is upside down. He said they put guys like him to work where we con't contact much. He said he is thinking of quiting. If you don't need it I don't blame him I told him. He told me that he did not care for the guys that I played with that's why I used to clap when you used to beat them. He said and you beat them plenty.

The great brain - Ellicott - called me down to his office and he asked me when did you plan this killing. I could had answered him and said the day that you or the Chief Parole Officer told the mob that I tried to get in touch with Washington but I did not want this statement to get on the record because as soon as he asked me that question I knew what he was up to as there was another room right in front of his desk. I got up and I walked toward the other room and as I did I said out lous that I did not plan this and as I said it I opened the door and the guard came out of the room with his head down and he walked out of the office. What he had in the other room was a recording machine. He looked at me and I looked at him and I asked him if he was through with me and he said yes New

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Yorkers are smart. I told him and again I told him Gee you sure want to follow your orders don't you? Well I said what are you going to do with the recording destroy it? He did not say a word and I was told to go upstairs by another guard. When I went upstairs I told Charlie about it and Charlie said good for you.

All of a sudden one morning, about two or three days after Ellicott had tried to trap me, about six o'clock in the morning I was told to have my breakfast as I was going to New York at least that was what the guard told me. Then he told me that he made a mistake I was going to court. I said so early. Charlie warned me as I called him. He was across the way on me. Anyway I told him if I don't get back he should take my cigarettes and whatever I had in my cell. They brought me in the Lt's office and a Marshal came and he told me he thinks that I am going to New York but when we got into his car he told me to do what my lawyers tell me or I could not go to New York that morning. It looked as though they had a special court for me. They did not but that was what I thought when I got to the courtroom. The lawyers called for me in a special room and again they begged me to plead guilty as there is a marshal waiting for me to take me to New York and the lawyers told me that if we don’t clear this case we can't go to New York. Well I told them how do I know that I am going to New York. I don't see anyone here and they told me that the papers were here in the building so I finally agreed to plead guilty. The lawyers told me that in a

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couple of years he wants to hear from me as he was not satisfied as to what happened in this case. He told me the truth just what he thought and he looked up the Atlanta record and it was forty years ago that anyone who got a life sentence and especially that I had turned myself in to avoid hurting anyone or being hurt and the crooked official in the jail cut me lose because it was what the mob wanted. In 1961 or 1962, I don't remember just exactly, one murder was the worse of its kind an inmate was defending his honor when he was killed and the killer got eight years and the other two murders the killers drew three years apiece. The D.A. came over to me and he told me that there is someone here from New York and he wants to talk to me and I need not talk to him the D.A. said. As the D.A. was an Ellicott man I told him I want to see who the feilow is if he did not mind. He said that he rather that I don't talk to him. I told him must I yell. I want to talk to him. What are you posing as a friend of mine after you hang me by the neck. Get that guy over here I said or I start yelling all over this courtroom. I don't want any advice from you I told the D.A. So they brought me in another room and I saw Frank Savaggie sitting in a chair and he looked kind of worried that I might chase him out but in the fix that I was in I could not afford to chase Frank. He asked me if I want to go to New York. I told him hes and he said that he had to call his boss and it would take about four hours and I said OK. Then the Marshal came over and he said that if the papers are not ready by

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tonight he the Marshal would keep me in the Atlanta County Jail overnight. He said that I could not go back to the prison. He said they already called the prison and warned them that I agreed to talk to the agent. I said you mean to tell me that I found an honest guy. He the Marshal told me that he knows what they are. Gee it feels good to find someone saying the truty. Oh I know what they are the Marshal said they did not like to see me at the prison this morning. They know me the Marshal said. All they were asking me this morning was is he going to New York because they know I'm from New York but the Marshal told Ellicott that he did not know if I was going to New York because he knows that they would spread it all over the City. Boy you certainly know these people. Oh yes I do he said. Well I was waiting in a room and the lawyers came and saw me. They said they heard that I was going to New York and they are very happy for me. They told me that whatever I do I would be justified as they know what I went through and if I need them for anything I should get in touch with them and they told me that the judge is glad that I am going to New York. Gee why did you let me plead guilty I could had gone to New York and left this case open. They said that this case had to he settled before I could go to New York. I told them that Frank told me that we could had gone to New York even if we were not finished with this case. They the lawyers said no. Until today I don’t know who is rignt. Now I asked the lawyers to tell the truth was this case pushed from the outside

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world, by this I mean by big shots. They said why do you think that we made you plead guilty. Well I still wanted to blast the prison. No they said not while you were still in Atlanta. Now you can do it they told me while you are in New York. Well I did not want to say what I was going to do as I was disappointed to see who came from New York. I was hoping that it was someone from the Attorney General's office but I'll see. Just let me get in New York and I'll work my way around. I did not want to tell anyone that Frank Savaggie is the one who started all this trouble. I'll keep my mouth shut and when Frank comes and I am on the plane I would ask Frank a couple of questions. Well Frank came in about four hours just the way he figured and we went and had something to eat and I asked him, Hey Frank you put Vito Agueci on the bus with me just so that I would save him and look at what he did to me. You made him do it hoping that I would come on your side but you never thought that it would lead into this kind of a mess. He said he would talk to me when we would get into New York. I said tell me the truth when you heard that someone got hurt in Atlanta did you think that it was me. He said that he would tell the truth he did think that it was me. I thought so. I said but I fooled you I told him. We did not talk much as the Marshal was sitting there with us. We got on the plane and there was seats for three so we could not talk much as the three of us were in one seat and the Marshal was telling me get even on

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those guys as he heard everything. I did not talk much. We reached New York and about four or five ageats met us there and we rode to Westchester County and Frank warned me not to hurt Solly Rinaldo as he was the one who sent me to jail for the twenty years that I received and this gave me all my troubles because when Gaffney called me just before I went to Atlanta someone started a rumor that I did something wrong and it was none other than Vito Agueci and as I said it I looked at Frank and Frank had a guilty look. I asked Frank I guess you are satisfied now. He said I'll come and see you tomorrow. I said OK. He came the following night and he came with his boss George Gaffney. His boss asked me some questions and they were important questions. He was very disappointed because they did not tally with what he had already known. In other words, he had it all wrong. He thought that I did not understand. He told Frank that this guy, meaning me, would hurt him because he had written different for the records and I want the whole world to know that this was the first time that I ever told Mr. Gaffney anything as he has been yapping all over the world that he made me talk. Well if there ever was a phony this Gaffney is the king of all the phonies and the biggest frame artist in the whole wide world. He was saying to Frank that he Mr. Gaffney did not want anyone to come and see me. His idea was if any one comes and sees me then all the stuff that he had been writing through the

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years would make him look bad but that very night I made up my mind that I am going to get away from him but I did not show it. Frank knew that I was sore because the next day Frank came all by himself. I told him that I want to go to Atlanta. I told Frank that I rather die than be with this man in the first place I did not like his ways and his talk. But the first night that Gaffney was there in Westchester County before he left he told me in my ear, "Don't worry you do as I say and you won't have anything to worry about." but he could had told me that I was going to be a king I was still going to get away on him. Frank had told me that everyone will want to have me so I figured that I'll go along with these guys and the first guy that would come that I liked I would run away by running away I mean say like the FBI would come and if they act like I think they are I would leave Mr. Gaffney flat. I must edmit that Frank felt bad as the say Gaffney spoke. He spoke like a general but he did not know anything. He was bragging about all the guys that he Gaffney had sent away. Sure I told Frank the next day anyone can send people to jail by framing them. Frank told me to keep my mouth shut. I told Frank I would never make it with your boss I don't like that kind of talk. He was bragging how he told me that I was going to get killed before I went to Atlanta and if I would had listened to him I won't be here with another rap. I told him that he was the cause of me getting in trouble. He asked me how. I told him I let him

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know when I am ready. He told Frank to put me with them other two guys. Frank told Gaffney what do you want let this guy get in trouble again those are the guys that gave this guy the twenty years. Gaffney said that he did not think about it you better put this guy all alone. Yes I told him I better be alone. I have some questions I want to ask those guys. Then Gaffney told me that he did not mean any harm he is worried that he wrote different and the Attorney General knows the way he wrote so I told him if you want me to say what you want me to say I won't do it. I'll say what I know not what you think. After all I said this was my life. You need to get the facts not stories. He ran upstairs and he spoke to Solly Rinaldo and Solly told him that guy downstairs knows who is who. You better listen to him. I know because Frank told me the next day. Frank knew how important I was and Gaffney wanted to bluff me and as I go alont I'll tell the reader how I got away from Gaffney - not that he turned me over to the FBI the way he has been telling the newspapers since I have been in the hands of Mr. Hundley. Well Gaffney went away and I never saw him again and the only one I had for a visitor for a while was Frank Savaggie and he had told me that the FBI wants to see me but I would make believe that I did not want to see them so that he would bring them in to see me. In the meantime Frank and I started to talk. I asked him to tell the truth why did he put Vito Agueci on the bus with me. He said that he would tell me the truth that he put him on the bus with me because

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that was the only way that they would let him alone. Why I asked. He said that he gave a lot of information and I asked him could he tell me something that I know that he told you. He said I'll tell you something that he told us that will knock you off your feet. I asked him if he knew for sure that whatever he was going to tell me that I would know as you know I told him that I don't know Vito Agueci from the outside I only met him once when I was in Canada. Yes he said he told us all about it. He said that you ate at his brother's house and he was there. Well what is the other thing that he told you. He said that Vito Agueci told us that Big Sam came over from Italy with a lot of junk and when his boss in Buffalo found out that Big Sam was in town with the junk his boss took five kilo of junk away from him, meaning Big Sam, and then Vito Agueci's boss ordered him out of town. I asked how much junk did Big Sam have and Frank told me about fifty kilo. I shook my head and I asked Frank how did you know that I knew it. He Frank said that Vito Agueci told him that he Vito and his brother Albert told you all about it at West Street and Vito Agueci told us that his boss in Buffalo killed his brother and he wanted Albert's wife to testify against his boss but Albert's wife refused telling Vito Agueci that he Vito Agueci is crazy because the mob guys call her up every night at seven o'clock and just remind her that they are leaving her alone and the first hint that they get that they are talking, meaning

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both wives, they both would be killed. I asked Frank he told you all that stuff. Frank said he told us plenty. He said he would do anything to get even for his brother. I told Frank I got some news for you Vito Agueci does not know his boss. He never met him and Frank said to me Gee that is what he told us. We did not believe him we thought he was lying. So you and Vito got a bright idea and you told him to go and tell Vito Genovese some stories about me thinking that would be a good way to get me on your side. He said I did not tell him someone told him and who figured that there would be a murder. OK I said can I ask you a favor I swear to you that I won't do anything you can tie me by my hands. Get Vito Agueci down on a writ all I want to do is just tell him why I left him alone. Of course you know what he did to me in Atlanta. He said he did as they heard it from other informer and he Frank said what is the matter with that old man he believes a thing like Vito Agueci. And what about Ralph Wagner I asked. Well he is carzy - he is crazy - yes he is crazy he hides his own sins. That's right he said believe me Joe I am still mad at you for what you done again. What I done I told him. You know well enough that you were not sincere - he was referring to the junk that he wanted me to put in an apartment as I explained in the early part of this story. Then he said in the first place we told you that you were going to get it. Sure you knew that I was going to get it you knew what Vito Agueci was going to do that is a fine thing but I told him if John from Canada don't ask me

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to do him a favor and be nice to Vito Agueci he Vito would had got it from the kid at Lewisburg. I saved him and Frank said he believed me because that kid was a bad kid. We warned him, meaning Vito, that this kid may hurt him when we had him in Westchester County. He meant the kid he was trying to get one of our witnesses. That's why we took the kid out of Westchester and we sent him back to West Street. Then he went in a dream and he said that he was sorry that he had taken a personal interest in me. It don't pay he said. He knew he ruined me but he said he was going to help me. I told him all you thought about was becoming a big man. Don't worry it would bother you. And he also told me that he had put me on the rat list on the outside in my first case. I must explain what I mean by a rat list Every now and then the agents suspect one of their agents that is giving the underworld a list of informers. The Agents put a couple of guys that they don't like on the list and most of the time they put well known stoolies on the list to make it look good. Now they had a kid in the Bronx by the name of Nickaline and this kid went around showing the list and he showed this list to a couple of close friends of mine and the agent himself told me that he had my name on top of the list. Did he have Ralph Wagner on the list? Of course not. Yet Ralph was calling Gaffney all the time. That is why he ran away on me in Canada and Vito Genovese was impressed how tough Ralph Wagner

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was. One night Ralph forgot that I knew all about the two cheap stick-ups that he was involved in and he was telling me in the cell one night and Vito Genovese was listening and Ralph was saying how he fired at the cop. I asked him what cop you were shooting at and he said you know what one. I said no I don't know of any cops that you were shooting at and he was winking at me as if to say don't give me away. I said out loud so that Vito Genovese could hear me - Ah Ralph you must dream at nights, cut it out, eh. Well I said to myself if Vito wants to be impressed with a punk like Ralph let him alone and when he does find out let him find out for himself. After all he is such a good judge.

One day Frank Salvaggie was telling me in Westchester that I was right that Ralph is bulling Vito Genovese because I had told Frank how Ralph is telling stories to Vito Genovese and Vito is eating it all. Frank told me that he found out that Vito Genovese must be losing his mind because he Vito sent out word that Ralph is a good triggerman. He Frank the agent had to laugh. How did you take it, because he was nothing and I did not want to get mixed up for nothing unless I had to why let Ralph bother me, I told Frank, when I had so many other things to worry about. Tell me I asked Frank how Ralph told you that I had a fix that is why I gave myself up. Frank said he told us on West Street but he told us that he was kidding. Yes he Was kidding airight but it was the

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turth even Solly in Atlanta was saying that it looked bad to come out and talk to you so many times because he Solly was with us at West Street at the time but he forgot it in Atlanta - that is he wanted to forget after all Vito thought that Ralph was a tough guy. What Vito Genovese did not know that when I got put in the indictment while I was in Atlanta Ralph was a co-conspirator and Ralph told me that if they put him in the new indictment he would hang himself. Now while I was telling Frank this story I asked him how come he did not put Ralph in the indictment. Frank said I must ask Gaffney about it. I said yes I know I must ask Gaffney. Ralph told me that Gaffney had told Ralph that he Gaffney wanted to see me dead on a slab. Now come Ralph knew so much about Gaffney's thoughts. Vito Genovese and I were talking about Mike Morello the guy that died three days after he was sentenced in our case. I told Vito Genovese that Mike died of heartbrake. Vito Genovese said that he had no pity for a guy that cannot take it. I looked at Ralph and he went to his bed because he knew what I had on my mind. He knew I was thinking how he told me that if he would had been in the indictment he would had hung himself. I was about to say it in front of Vito but I just can't be a dog like them. They have what I call false nerve. Frank Savaggie gets a phone call while we are sitting down and he is told that a Mr. Mellarsome is promited. I thought that Frank was going to get a heart

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attack. He called D.A. Baer and he was yelling on the phone did you hear what happened. He told the D.A. whatever the D.A, said I don't know but he was telling the D.A. that he Frank is going out on a drunk. I knew Mellarsome and I knew that he has been an agent for over ten years. Frank at this time was only an agent for about three years and a half so I told him ain't you ashamed of yourself exposing your feelings about a brother officer. Boy he went into a rage. He looked at me and he said it is all your fault. I told him what are you a nut. He said that I could had made him a big man. He said that his job ain't worth a dime if he don't become boss. I looked at him and I told him that you would had become boss and I would had got hung. Why don't you stop talking about it I told him that's why you framed me in the second indictment. Everytime I tried to tell Frank something he would say no it is different. I told him there is no sense trying to tell you anything because you know everything. He tried to involve my family. If I ever done any good in life well, it was not letting my family knowing anything as to what I was involved in. When he tried to do those kind of things I told him that he and I were not going to get along. I told him that he has that punk upstairs that got arrested with his wife and sister and now you think that you are dealing with the same kind of scum. Ranaldo's wife and sister were caught with junk in their homes. I told him that if he don't

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let my family alone he and I would be all over the office in Westchester County and don't think I don't know that you and your phony friends didn't try to louse me up with my family by telling them about girls that I was out drinking with you must think you are the smartest guy in the world and besides I don't know what you are up to from the way you talk you would think that I just got arrested the way I came here I told him would be the same way that I would go. Now he goes and see the scum upstairs and he comes and see me and he Frank tells me that he found out that Frank the Bug don't like me. I did not even answer him. He went on to say you know why he don't like you. I still did not answer him. Then he told me the reason why the Bug did not like he said that my friend Vinnie did me out of fifty thousand dollars. I asked him how did he know and he said that his scum rat upsairs told him and that is why the Bug don't like me. He said because the Bug was sore at me that I did not do anything about it. Mr, I told him if there was anyone I got along with it was the Bug and if you don't stop bothering me about telling me these phony stories somehow you are going to get me into more trouble. I don't know that punk upstairs and he can tell you if you ask him and on one done me out of any money. What do you think I was - like him that guy did not tell you that story you are making up stories. I told Frank he could not tell you because it is not true. This is one of the phony stories you and your boss

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invented. Frank said that he would cut out telling me stories. He said he will promise that he would be serious from now on it is up to you I told him if you think that you have me when you think that I'll say whatever you tell me to say. Well you and your boss have another guess coming. I see that I came in the hands of the receivers. No he said you are right he should not fool around with me and I told him you better play straight or you are going to lose me and he asked how. I told him I don't know but I'll find a way already I can't stand you I told him again. He promised he won't fool around any more. Tell the truth I told him did that guy tell you this story or did you make it up. He said he made it up. Now he tells me another story and he swore that he was telling the truth. He said that Vinnie is talking. I did not answer him. Sure you put me in trouble and now you think that you can pull it on everyone. I will not give you any opinion. He started to say that he spoke to me of the boys on the outside and this guy told him that a lot of good fellows are saying it. I still won't answer him. I just looked at him. See what it means when you want to make up stories I don't believe anything you say. He said let's get down to business he won't fool around any more. I told him I need a few days to cool off I'm starting to hate you more and more go away I told him and don't come back for a few days I may cool off. He comes back in a few davs and he tells me why don't I tell him something about my life and then he tells me that the Attorney General wants a report on me. He said

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we must write a report. He would send it to Gaffney and Gaffney would send it to the Attorney General. Well I started to tell him what he wanted to know and I notice that he was writing differently, especially that he was always putting one name down all the time so I asked him why is he always putting this name all the time he said that Gaffney called him and Gaffney told him to send the report to the Attorney General so that the Attorney General won't understand it. I asked him what is the idea. He Frank said you heard him that night he has been writing differently. In other words I would let him look bad. He Frank said that is right. I see I said well the more I said to myself I got to get away from these guys. That guy Gaffney is a nut. I said to Frank he just shook his head. Well he Frank sent out the report and the thing I hear that the Attorney General is sending an FBI man because he the Attorney General could not understand the report. I asked why the A.G. could not understand the report. Frank said because Gaffney does not want me to reach the A.G. This is good I said even now you guys want to screw me up. Well I must say that Frank agreed on this subject. He said that he must take orders. What could I say I just hoped that someone else come.

Sure enough when Frank came back he told me that the Attorney General is sending an FBI man and Gaffney said I must talk to him but I should not tell

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him much and get rid of him as fast as you can. OK I said when is he coming. He said he wants to come today but I'm going to tell him to come Monday. He Frank said that he wants to give him the run around. The FBI man called that day I was with Frank when the call came because Frank was coming every day at this time to make sure that no one comes and see me. I heard him tell the FBI man to come Monday as this was on a Friday. The FBI man wanted to come the following day and Frank told him that he don't come on Saturday and no one talks to Joe if Frank ain't there. The FBI man said OK I'll be there Monday. Frank warned me again he said remember that Gaffney wants you to get rid of this guy OK I said.

Monday the FBI man comes to see me and Frank introduced me to him his name was Jim as soon as the FBI man comes in he tells me that they the FBI were one day late in getting to Atlanta to talk to me. Frank greeted him in a friendly way and Frank made him copy whatever he had already written. I tell Jim not to copy any more as Frank is got everything written in his own way as Frank goes out of the office for a moment Jim asked me what is the trouble. I tell him nothing as I want to get to know him and I want that he keeps coming. I asked him who sent you here and he said the Attorney General. He said the Attorney General could not understand the report that was sent in by Frank. I could

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not tell him much but I asked him to come Saturday and Sunday if he can. I told him that there would be no one here Saturday. Jim comes over and I speak to him for a couple of hours. I asked him if he knew a certain FBI man. He said he did and the FBI man that I knew was in the same office as he Jim works. I tell Jim that this FBI man came to my house once and I told this FBI man how to go about it he wanted to know how to check on the jukeboxes they wanted to know if there was any intimidating in the business and I assured him that there was not. I told him to have the police check from store to store and they would find out that the storekeepers run the whole show. They borrow money from one operator and then look to get rid of him by borrowing from another operator so that they can get away from the first operator that he borrowed from the first time that is why the operators need a union to protect them from these storekeepers. Now if you find any corruption I'll assure you that it does not come from the operators. It would come from some outsider. Jim said he remembered when they came to my house and that I had given them the right steer and I saved them a lot of work. I asked Jim if he would like to come all the time he said he would like to come all the time. I was feeling my way around I just could not take the man in my confidence. I wanted to get to know him. I told him that Frank would be mad when he finds out that you come here on Saturday and Sunday. He Jim said as long as I want him he would come Saturday or any other

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time. Fine I told him I would judge you as you come and if I get to like you I would tell you a thing or two as I am not satisfied with Frank. You would notice as you go along that whatever Frank has written in his report is alltogether different as to what I'll tell you. OK he said. When Frank came around and he found out through the front office that Jim was over to see me on the weekend he got mad and I told him what do you want from me the guy came and I was not going to tell him that he should not come here. I like him I told Frank and Frank told me that I am going to get in trouble with Gaffney. I did not answer him as we were talking Jim walked in and he told Jim that he should not come on weekends and Jim told him OK he would not come on weekends and Frank told him that as far as he is concerned he could come but it is his boss that does not want anyone here unless he Frank is present. OK Jim told him and Frank grabbed me on the side and he told me that I am going to get in trouble with Gaffney. I told Frank you heard the way he spoke to me and he Frank told me yes you are right but do you know what he did when he left here he went to Washington and he was bragging about having you. I told him I don't like him and I don't believe you. Frank told me that they hurt me enough and they want to help me. I'm sorry I said he showed a very poor sign of helping me. I said OK I'll tell him to come and see you Frank said. I did not answer. Well it went on this way for a couple of weeks and Gaffney never came. All he would do was send word to me by Frank telling me

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to ger rid of Jim. I would not get rid of Jim. I would tell Frank I was getting closer and closer to Jim. Finally I told Jim that they want me to get rid of him so Jim asked me if he can have me moved out of Westchester would I be satisfied. I told him I'll go to hell just to get away from Gaffney. He Jim said give him a little time. Now Jim tells me that Vito Agueci is here in West Street they had him brought down from Atlanta and he Vito is here a couple of weeks. Now when Frank came I asked him if Vito Agueci is coming down and Frank said he would be back in West Street on the fifteenth of the month. I said OK I did not tell him what I knew that Vito Agueci is already down as I did not want to make hard feelings between Frank and Jim. Now Jim asked Frank what is this that I hear is Vinnie talking. Frank told Him hes from what D.A. White tells me Frank told Him it may be and then Frank asked me what do I think I told him I am not thinking I ain't going to give any opinion. Then when I got a hold of Jim alone I told him not to pay any attention to Frank. Jim said it is true everyone is saying it. I told him the reason why every one is saying it is because Frank and Gaffney are spreading it all over town. They even put it in the papers they got me trouble now they think that they can do it to Vinnie. I told Jim I hope it were true but I want to steer you right, don't believe these guys they are a bunch of agitators. Jim said if it is true he wants to go and see Vinnie. I told Jim save

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your time and let them go and see him. Frank is spreading it on the outside and he thinks because they had luck with me now they can do it to everyone but it is all worked out they had their lesson with what they done to me and besides Vito Genovese ain't in Atlanta to be listening to phony stories. I told Jim that we would sit back and see what happens. Jim said OK he would sit back and see what happens. OK you would see.

Now Jim comes back and he tells me that this thing about Vinnie is all over, even Mr. Hundley asked him if it is true. He said Gaffney is spreading it all around Washington. Sit back and you will see in the end who is right and Frank kept on telling me right along but I would never answer him. I want him to make a fool out of himself he would keep telling me this one said it and that one said it. All I would do is look at him. They had a book called the Mafia and they had 237 names in the book and it was all the names that Gaffney had put in the book as members of the Mafia. They had guys like Mickey Cohen in the book, Irish fellows, all kinds of different nationalities. I did not say anything. I told Jim if we go away from here then I would straighten out the book but as long as the brains Gaffney knows what he is doing let him alone. Jim said OK as far as Vinnie was concerned after about 14 months everyone was convinced that he was not talking and the great brain looked bad again.

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One day I'm alone with Frank and I tell him that a prisoner came in from West Street and he told me that Vito Agueci has been on West Street since the third of the month and when I am telling Frank it is about the 19th of the month I don't mention the month because I don't remember the exact month but I do remember the date of the month. Frank got excited and started to blame Jim for telling me. Frank said that he heard that Jim was down West Street to check whether Vito Agueci was there. I did not want to tell Frank that Jim had told me because I did not want to be a troublemaker. He can make up stories so can I. Well I asked Frank is Vito Agueci down at West Street or is he not. Frank said yes he is down there since the third of the month. Well I asked him did you and Vito Agueci get together and make up a good story for yourselves. He said yes he did make up a good story. He said he was sore at me because I made him look bad with Washington. I said this is the greatest thing I ever heard you were looking to set me up and I don't go for it and you get mad at me. Will I'll be I said it was supposed to be between you and I and now you tell me that I made you look bad with Washington. How did Washington find out? It shows you that you were trying to set me up and because I got wise to you and I saved myself you get mad at me. He was looking out of the window while I was talking. He said that he did not expect me to commit murder. Or you expected me to get

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killed, tell the truth I asked him when you heard that someone got hurt in Atlanta who did you think it was. He said he thought it was me. Well I disappointed you I told him. Boy I told him you would hang anyone to become boss you want me to put junk in an apartment and you want to pinch me and I refused to do it because I did not trust you and you get mad at me you don't make sense to me. Tell me I asked did you and Vito get together. Yes he said Vito has gone back to Atlanta. As I was waiting to run away on him I did not press any more. Boy I said you were not satisfied that you got me fifteen years in the first case and 20 more years in the second case when I refused to go on your side when you and Gaffney called me at West Street you wanted to get me killed. OK I said its enough. Then he said if I give him a chance he would help me. I told him I don't think I want any help from you or Gaffney. He said he felt sorry for me. I told him he won't know what it is to be sorry, all he knows is how can he become boss. God knows who he would frame. He said no he means it he should not have taken a personal interest in me. I told him you made an arrest why did you want to bejudge, jury, D.A. and everything. Why don't you go out and get new ones. The reason why I told him was because he was making up a new indictment and this one was a third indictment and he was using the same witnesses as he used in the other two indictments. He asked me if I would

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help him. I asked him how and he said that I could testify for him. I asked him who was he going to put in the indictment. He mentioned about 40 names. I asked him why does he need me when he has two guys upstairs. He said he has three guys upstairs. He said a new one just came in. He said that this new one knows all about the Anastasia murder. I asked him who is he. Well he said he is a witness for us and he was out on bail and they shot him and they missed. He said that he was hit in the foot. He said that there was ice on the floor and the guy fell and one of the guys that was shooting at him fired about six shots at him while he was laying on the floor but the guy missed but the witness also had a gun and he also fired at the gunman. He thinks he hit him. I asked what is his name he said Jimmy Edges. I never heard of him I told him. Yes he said but he heard of you and you should had seen how everyone was interested when he was telling the story of Albert Anastasia. Who is everyone? He said all the agents. No kidding I told him what did he say. He said that Jimmy Edges is the guy that furnished the guns for the killer of Albert. Oh boy I said from an errand boy now he is a big time gunman. He asked me if I wanted to meet him. I said no. He said why not. I just don't care to meet him. He said you can play cards with him. I told him to forget about it. Well he said What do you think about his story. I said I don't care about giving any version. Gee he is making some hit he said.

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Good for him I told him, did Gaffney write the story of Jimmy Edges in his files. He said yes. Lots of luck to him I said, I don't know anything about Albert so keep Jimmy Edges and frame him or put his picture on your wall I told him I would have to hear what the D. A. says when he hears Jimmy Edges' story. Frank said that the D.A. of New York County likes his story. Good I said. At this moment Jim walks in and when he heard the story he felt like I felt and I must tell you now I met the Assistant D.A. of New York County and I asked him what did he think of Jimmy Edges' story and the Assistant D.A. told me that they threw the story out of the window. The idea why Frank wanted me to meet Jimmy Edges was that I would educate him. I figured that the kid did not know what he was talking about so why should I go and live with him. At this time Jim had some papers in his hand and he reads to me a statement that a guy made to the D.A. at Atlanta. He is the inmate that hit another inmate on the head with a two by four and the inmate made a statement to the D.A. that he was assigned with Joe Valachi to hit the fellow that Joe Valachi had hit but he could not be with Joe that morning because he had an early visit. This was the same inmate that was supposed to send the priest to me when I was in the hole as I already told you that the priest had brought me a message and as I did not know the inmate I could not understand what the priest was talking about and I did not think that the priest did the right thing trying to give me such a message.

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I still don't know the inmate's name. The inmate had told the D.A. that Vito Genovese had given orders to hit the inmate that I hit and he also told the D.A. that he was supposed to be with me that morning but as he had told the priest he told the D.A. that he had an early visit and that was the reason why he could not be with me that morning but he took care of the other inmate that got away on Joe Valachi that morning and the D.A. in Atlanta was ready to indict Vito Genovese for murder if I cooperate with him. I told Jim that I did not know the inmate and besides everyone knows that I hit the wrong man and I also like to hang Vito Genovese if I can but I will not have a hand in framing Vito Genovese. So Jim sent the statement back to the D.A. telling him that Joe Valachi does not know what the inmate is talking about. The next thing I hear that they sent the inmate to the insane asylum. Now I'll tell you why this inmate tried to pull such a stunt. He had prepared it since I got into trouble he did not know that I was defending my own life. It was Vito Genovese who sentenced me to death but this fool doing fifteen years for a bank job and the way I understand it he came from the south somewhere he got a great idea hoping to save himself from the fifteen years that he was serving by scheming this phony story not knowing that I was an enemy of Vito Genovese. Somehow he figured that Vito Genovese had ordered me to hit this fellow that I hit in the first place I made a mistake I was really after all of Vito Genovese's men when this fool found out that I was an

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enemy of Vito Genovese he went crazy and I heard that before he went crazy he had lost sixty pounds while he was in the hole. I told Jim the fool did not know that I tried to avoid getting hurt or hurt someone by putting myself in the hole but it was my hard luck that Mr. Ellicott had turned me loose and by him turning me loose I got into the jam that I got in. Now my dear friend Frank Savaggie is sitting down in a rocking chair and he is rocking back and forth and he falls backward and his legs went up in the air and his gun shows and I thought that he would faint the way he got excited. I just stood there and I watched him as he got all nervous. I asked him what is the matter are you afraid to come and talk to me without a gun. Gee you must feel bad with all the dirty work you pulled on me you are really afraid aren't you. He said that I blame him for everything. I forget that he takes orders. He said that he really wants to help me. He said that his uncle is in town and he would like to come and see me but he won't come as long as I am in Gaffney's custody. Well let's get awat from Gaffney I told him. He said that he can't. I said your uncle is a big shot in Washington what are you worrying about. He said that Gaffney tried to take his uncle Siragusa'a job and Siragusa don't like Gaffney. Gee I have been hearing about Siragusa through the years no matter how bad he is he can't be worse than Gaffney. He said he won't try anything for my sake. He said it won't be nice for me to be fighting

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these people. I need all the friends I can get. You call Gaffney a friend I said you see what would happen you would see how much I care for Gaffney. Soon he asked me what did I mean. I said nothing I just dream that's all. He said I better listen to him, Gaffney is a bad guy to fool around with. No kidding I told him. The next time Jim comes I tell him about Frank falling and I tell Jim that Frank had a gun on him. Jim was shocked and he asked me if I was sure. Yes I am sure I told him and the following day Frank comes in early and the Warden runs in the office and asked Frank if he had his gun on him and Frank said yes. What are you crazy the Warden told him. What do you want me to lose my job you know you are supposed to check the gun. Have you been coming in here all this time with the gun on your person. Frank said yes. Give me that gun the Warden told him and don't ever dare to come in here with the gun on your person. He said OK and from then on the Warden used to come everytime Frank was there to see me. I told Jim all about the Warden and Jim said that he did not know that he Frank was coming to speak to you with a gun on his person. I told Jim guilty conscious. After this happened the Warden was after Frank. He told Frank he knows I got it in for him. I told him I forget all about him after I got the first fifteen years but it is you that is knocking yourself out you did let up on me and you are still at it here you have Vito Agueci down at West Street and

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you tell me he ain't there. You are phony from the bottom up. You can't afford to bring Vito Agueci here because you know in your heart that you made him go to Atlanta to tell Vito Genovese that I gave you guys information. I don't blame you Vito Genovese ain't supposed to listen to a guy like Vito Agueci after all you are an agent and he Vito Genovese ain't supposed to listen to what an agent says but Frank said no one told Vito Agueci to tell Vito Genovese anything of the sort so I asked him to swear on his kids and he refused to do it and then again he says that he was sore at me and he did not think that it would turn to murder. Now Jim walked in and I blew my top with Frank. I asked him did I deserve another twenty years. Tell me in the name of God did I have anything to do in the second case with anyone you know in your heart that this was a new outfit and it did not get together until six or seven months after I went away but you and your boss thought that by your giving me another twenty years that I'll join on your side and when I refused you both want me to get killed at lease I live by being a guy that does things against the law and when I'm arrested I get time for it but you that you have a badge you should not be doing things on your own but you take the law into your own hands when you do things like you did and in the first place as long as Vito Agueci started to tell you stories why didn't you use him. No you wanted to get at me now do you think that it is on account of the

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time that I got that I'm here - no of course not - I'm here because Vito Genovese listened to a couple of rats and you know it. I got enough time for my wrong doings what else do you want from me. Everybody else got their time and went and did it. What did I do to you that you took such an interest in me and you know that I wasn't fooling around much. You knew I got more time than I deserve. Are you happy now that you ruined me for the rest of my life. So long as you are happy its OK with me and still you did not get me to do what you want me to do. How about it? He looked at me and he said why don't you give me a chance to help you. I told him I don't want any help. I can never put foot in N.Y.C. as long as I live - are you happy? What are you going to do with Vito Agueci I asked him and he said that in a couple of years they would send him back to Italy. I asked him is that the deal you made with him that if he Vito Agueci louses me up to Vito Genovese he would be rewarded by being deported to Italy. He is got fifteen years I told him. He looked at me and said again in a couple of years he would be deported to Italy and where is he going to live in Italy I asked and Frank said you not kidding they are wise to him on the outside. You know right well that they are wise to him. Then Frank said you know I don’t blame you Vito Genovese wanted to have you killed. He had no business listening to a greaseball like Vito Agueci. Weil why do you think that I am here for everything that I do

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would reflect on him. Let him have those two rats Ralph Wagner and Vito Agueci. Frank said he will kill the both of them and the guys who had the contract to get you. They don't know it I told Frank. Then he would say that it was not his idea after all he has a boss. I know I said why don't he come and see me I asked Frank. He laughed and said I don't know. Well I hope to give him a surprise I told Frank and Frank said you have something on your mind. I said no, I just dream that's all. He goes home and he comes back the nest day and as Jim was already there and he calls me on the side and he asked me when am I going to get rid of Jim. Gaffney is mad he said. I said right now. He said no wait until tomorrow I knew he won't want me to do it while he Frank is there that was why I said right now. I told Jim all about it as soon as Frank turned his back. I asked Jim how long it would be before we get out of Westchester County. He said it won't be long so I told Jim not to show up tomorrow so that I can tell Frank that Jim did not show up even though I knew that Frank himself won't be here but I could tell him when he comes that Jim did not show up. So the next day both of them did not show up. When they did come they both were there again. He called me on the side and he asked me did I tell Jim anything. I said he did not show up he came today do you want me to tell him now. He said no but he would leave early and then I can tell him so I told Jim to leave when Frank leaves and I would explain it to you tomorrow. So the next day

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they both were there again and Frank looked mad. He said that the committee wants to see me but he is going to make sure that I won't get there but Jim winked at me as if to say pay no attention to him but I asked Frank who is going to the committee. He Frank said they the committee would ask him what I had to say. Oh I said is that the way it is and Frank said yes. Well I guess you would tell them anything you want to tell them. He said that is right. Well that is the way we left off that day.

Now Jim brings a friend of his and of course he was an FBI man, his name was Pat, and Jim said that when he ain't able to come Pat would come so the first day that Pat came and Jim did not come and when Frank came I introduced Pat to Frank. He Frank acted so bad to Pat that I felt embarrassed. He did not stay long that day but when he did come back Jim was there and as they were both going away at the same time Frank said to me that he would walk me toward the jail which was about one hundred and fifty feet. He Frank told me that Gaffney said that if I don't get rid of Jim he Gaffney would fix me up. He Frank said that Gaffney told Frank to tell me that if I like to fool around with FBI men he'll fix me and he would fix me good so I wheeled as Frank told me and I looked at Jim even though Jim was at a distance but Jim sensed something and he made a motion to me as if not to say anything so I did not say anything and I walked away from

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Frank and I went to the jail. The next day when Jim came I told him what Frank said and I told Him that they are still trying to hurt me. Now I want to explain to the reader what it is all about the reason why Gaffney wants me to get rid of Jim was so that I don't tell the facts he Gaffney wants to tell fairy tales that he has been getting here and there through the years and after I found out for sure that Gaffney made the trouble for me in Atlanta by using Vito Agueci and Ralph Wagner I did not want to be with him at any cost who can blame me. Now there was an inmade that locked with me he was about six foot-four and one of the lowest type cokey. He was arrested, he and three others, for stealing a typewriter. Can one imagine such low down young men. His name was John that is all I remember he made me read a few of his letters that he received from girls on the outside and one or two came from out of town and each of the girls accused him of taking their money and one of them was willing to forgive him. Well I could not stand it so I did not want to read any of his letters any more but I did not make him understand why I did not want to read his mail any more although he sensed it. One day he is reading a book and he threw the gook at me as I was laying on my bed. I asked him why he threw the book at me and he said read it I think you know the guy. I read a few lines and it was about a guy that was murdered in Yonkers some twelve or thirteen years before this book was out on the street. After I read a few lines I threw the book back at him and I told him that I did not know or hear

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of the guy. A few days later an inmate told me that he saw John the fellow that locks with me talk to Frank the agent that comes and sees you. Right away I knew why he John had thrown the book at me. A few days before Frank comes to see me and he asked me if I know anything about a guy that was killed about twelve or thirteen years ago in Yonkers so I asked him am I supposed to know something about it. He said no he is just asking me that's all. No I don't know anything about it I told him. He Frank told me the D.A. of Westchester County is a friend of his and he is going to come and see me. I asked him who is the D.A. and he said a D.A. by the name of Purselli. Gee that is the D.A. that testified in our case. Frank said yes that is the D.A. but he did not say anything about you Frank said. I know I said according to the D.A. Purselli when he questioned Rinaldo and Purselli asked Rinaldo if Joe Valachi had anything to do with the case he Rinaldo answered and said that Joe Valachi had nothing to do with the case and he Purselli wrote it down just the way Rinaldo answered until you Frank came in the picture and you forced Rinaldo to put me on the case. Isn't that right? Frank said OK he said it is all over. Yes it is all over look at the jam that I am in. Sure it's all over it is all over for me and you talk about being promoted. OK. I asked what is it all about. He asked me to do him a favor the D.A. wants to get it off the book. The Westchester County Police think that the boys in Fordham had something do do with that killing. I asked Frank

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who is this fellow that got killed supposed to be. Frank said he was a union man and just a few days before he got killed he passed the remark that he did not fear the mob. Gee what am I supposed to say. Frank said make them happy by saying that you heard that the Fordham mob did it this way. They would take it off the record. Well I said to myself this guy is still out to ruin me. I'll tell him that I'll do it and then when the D.A. comes I'll tell him that I don't know anything about it and I would make a fool out of Frank and the inmate that is looking to save six months if I tell the D.A. what Frank wants me to tell him because the same inmate that told me that he saw John speaking to Frank told me that John is looking to save the six months that he is supposed to serve for the typewriter that he and three more stole. Frank went away and he said the D.A. would come and see me next week. When Jim came I told him the whole story and what I am going to do. Jim said that if Frank wants me to do a thing like that then I don't blame me to do a thing like that then I don't blame you for being sore. If I knew something about it I told Jim I won't mind but here is an inmate who is looking to save six months on my expense and Frank agrees with him. OK I'll want until the D.A. comes the following week the D.A. came and saw me and he came with the Chief of Police and a couple of more guys. When they came they sent for me and the D.A. Purselli asked me if I ever heard who killed the union man that died 12

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or 13 years ago. I tell Mr. Purselli that I swear that I don’t know anything about it and he was disappointed so I asked him why am I supposed to know. He did not know what to say. Well after about a two hour talk we started to talk about other things and he remembered that he saw me in court when he came to the Federal Court to testify because he Purselli did all the questioning when Rinaldo and the other fellow got arrested and I asked him as long as you are here do you remember when you questioned Rinaldo and you asked him if I had anything to do with the case and he told you that I had nothing to do with the case. The D.A. said to tell you the truth when I saw your name on the indictment he was surprised. Then he asked me if I was telling him the truth about me not knowing anything about who did I think killed the union man. I told him about the inmate being a wise guy and the D.A. said Oh is that the way it is and he shook hands with me and he went away. When I came in the jail I find the Warden in the hall and he was With John the Cokey that thought he was going to save six months. The Warden asked me if I told the D.A. anything and John had his ears wide open. No I tell the Warden I did not know what they were talking about I don't know anything about any murders that happened in Westchester county 12 or 13 years ago and I walked away. After I went in my cell John the Cokey came and saw me. He asked me if his name was mentioned. I said why should your name be mentioned and why do you feel that you should be connected with me and he asked me if I

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remember when he showed me a book a few weeks ago. I said that I don't remember why should I remember was it important. I said well what was in the book that I should remember. He said that union man that got killed a long time ago what about that union man I asked. He did not know what to say so I asked him did I tell you that I knew anything about it. He said no but he told a guard I that he showed me the book and the guard must have told the Warden. Yes I said that's why I saw you with the Warden when I came back from the D.A. I said, Hey John do you think that you could out-smart me. The best thing to do is forget about it. He was a trustee and he said that he would have a steak for me that night. I told him sure I will be glad to have it. So that night he gave me the steak and he said he was worry for what happened. He realized that he should not mix with me. He said that he is a small timer and he should not fool around with me. I told him to forget about it. In a few days he was moved out of the county jail and he went and served his six months. When Frank came he was a little disappointed and I told him what I did and he told me that I made him look bad. Sure I always make you look bad you are never sincere. What do you think I don't know you got together with the cokey that I got in my cell. He is a big dope and you listen to him. Frank said he could had used him outside. Use him I said who are you going to lock up - junkie? He don't know anything worth your

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while. He is a low down cokey I told Frank and Frank said that I was right and we forgot all about it. Now Jim comes and he tells me that we would be leaving in about a week and I asked Jim where are we going and he said he did not know yet. Boy when Frank finds me gone out of here he is going to catch a fit. The reader would take notice that I am about to run off on Gaffney and the readers must remember how many times they read in the papers that Gaffney had turned me over to the FBI. He is got to read what I am writing and if he has any other story as to how I got out of his hands other than what I am telling you then he is a liar. Frank was over and again he asked me when am I going to get rid of Jim. I told him next week for sure.

The following week Jim came and told me that in a day or two I would be leaving Westchester County. I was happy because Frank had nothing else to do but tell me phony stories. He got me so sick telling me that he saw or spoke to this guy and that guy and I was getting to be a nervous wreck. Two days later two Marshals came and they moved me from Westchester County and they brought me to Mammouth, New Jersey, where there was soldiers and the food was very good and the next day Jim came and saw me. I wasn't too happy but as long as I got away from Gaffney I did not mind. After I was at the Army Base I must say that the soldiers and everyone else were fine but they did not have charge over me. Then Jim brought Mr. Hundley over to see me and he took charge and up

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to now he has been very nice to me and I am still with him. If anyone wants to know how I feel -- well all I did was protect myself and if I would had died I would had died branded like a dog in Atlanta and I did not do anything wrong. Now if they get me at least I done enough to hurt them and I have been reading that I am interested in Vito Genovese if he should get out. Well I feel he made all the trouble for me and as long as he suffers with me I am satisfied and the main reason why I don't want him to get out on the street is that I know that a lot of guys would die, especially the ones who had the contract to get me in Atlanta and they failed. I know how Vito thinks -- they the boys brought him all the stories and when it came to do the job they along with Vito Genovese were out-smarted. One should know how I feel. Well I hope that some day the American people would benefit by what I have been telling them as far as the mob is concerned and I must say I am not afraid and I am not worrying as to what happens. I am alone in this world. I write to no one of my family as the world knows they disown me and I don't blame them. I would had been dead two years now and I would had the same name as I have now so what is there to lose. Mr. Vito Genovese you tell me.