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The Real Thing
The Autobiography of Joseph Valachi
- Part 2 of 4 -

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[missing pages 300-303]


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house. We were four of us, Solly, Nickie, Chic 99 and myself. Now as we walk in the house Buster and the Doc came right over and shake hands with us and Buster brought me to meet Salvatore Maranzano, as this was the first time I had met him. He told me to sit right next to him on his right and I said hello to everybody as it was too much trouble to go all around and shake hands and as the table was all set to eat. They had ordered for the spaghetti to be thrown into the boiling water and Mr. Marnazano asked everyone to stand up and he went on to explain that everyone make himself at home and after we eat we will all meet one another as this is a sort of get together meet. All told, I say we were about forty. It was a very large room and it looked as though that two rooms were broken down and made into one. We all started to eat it look as though that everyone was hungry. We had whiskey and wine on the table but no one seem to be drinking. After the supper was over they introduced all of Maranzano's men to Tom Gagliano's men. Now I find out that Tom Gagliano was the man on whose farm we were when we went and practice with the guns. I spoke about when we were on the farm, in the earlier part of this story. Mr. Maranzano spoke to me on the side and he was telling me about the Pelham Parkway apartment that he was very happy the way

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things turned out and that he was proud of me being so alerted in spotting Joe the Boss and the way I handled the situation when I met them in the elevator. I'll mention the important people that were here at this meeting, besides Mr. Maranzano there was Tom Gagalino, Joe Profaci, Joe Pasisades, Tom Lucheese, Joe Bonanno, Bobby Boyle, the Gap, also known as Dominick Petrilli, Nick Cappazzi, Nick Padovana, Salvatore Schillitani, alias Solly Schields, the Doc, Steve Rinelli, Charley Buffalo, and Buster. I never knew Buster's real name. He died early and young. After the supper we all had coffee and then they excused themselves and we were led into another room and after five minutes I was the first one to be called. I went in the room and they were all standing by their chair and I walked to the right of the room. I was directed to sit next to Mr. Maramzarro, and on the table there was a gun and a knife. Well he said some words in Italian which I did not understand, but I know what it meant. It meant that you live by the gun and the knife and you die by the gun and the knife. Then he gave me a piece of paper and he said that he will burn it and I shall push it back and forth and I shall say as I do it this is the way I shall burn if I ever expose this Cosa Nostra and then he went on to explain to important rules as there are more but this being time of war he only explained the

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two most important ones and later on I will tell of all the rules. The two important rules he explained at this time were(one) if you fool around with a member's wife or any part of his family there is no defense for you and the same goes for squealing. Now this doesn't mean that you can go and fool around with anyone else's wife, they don't encourage you to do just that, the idea is that an outsider who would like to press charges against you for doing just that sort of thing he won't know where to make a beef against you unless he has a friend who is a member. In the old days the way I was made to understand, if a member was married and he had a sweetheart he was in plenty to trouble but the bosses developed a habit if they fell for a member's wife he would have the husband killed whether she like it or not. There were not many of these doings but the few that there were that I know of I will talk about it as I go on. One I already told you about, that was the one who got killed on Palham Parkway. The last thing that was done before you were made a member was to draw a little blood from your shooting finger with a needle or a pin which meant now we are brothers and after it was all over everyone stood by their chairs and held hands again something was said in Italian, again I did not understand. Now as long as I am on the subject of making friends of ours as this is the way

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the expression is used when you introduce one friend to another friend, for instance I meet a friend and I am with another friend and I know that the guy I met is a member and the guy that I'm With don't know the guy we just met I will introduce him in this expression, I will say Hello Jim meet John he is a friend of ours but if he is just a friend and is not a member I would say John meet Jim, he is a friend of mine. The fellow that I am with would understand that the fellow that I introduces him to is not a member, he is just a friend. Now the reason why I brought this out and I am going ahead of my story is that I want to explain to the reader the difference between a member and a non-member. Now in the old days in normal times if a member brought a new man in the Cosa Nostra he would be responsible for any wrong doings. He will kill him if necessary. Now I want to explain about a new man I brought in the Cosa Nostra in 1957 or 1958 and Vito Genovese was the Boss. He was supposed to tell the man that Joe is standing up for you and if you do anything wrong Joe is responsible for you. Instead this is the way Vito brought it out, someone gave me your name and is responsible for you. The idea of this was to belittle me. Vito thought I didn't understand this move. This is the way they steal friends away from you. It was so raw that Joe Pagano remarked to me what was the

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idea of that I thought that you were responsible for me. As this was the fellow that I personally brought into Cosa Nostra and the last one. Well I walked away from Joe and said you heard it. Now I go on with my story.

Now we leave the country and come back to New York City and I was placed in another apartment on Bronx River Parkway now as I have a personal grudge against Joe Rao as I found out he was the one who put me in trouble in 1924. He was the one who accused me of driving the car for the Irish mob. A telephone call comes in the apartment that Joe Rao and Big Dick are at the Pompei Restaurant, the call came about four o'clock in the morning. Solly Shields insisted on coming with me. We got to the Pompei restaurant at 125 Street and Seventh Ave. at about 5:30 in the morning and when we reached 126 Street on Seventh Ave. I asked Solly to drive the car as this was a personal grudge. He said that he will not take a chance at the wheel. Now as it was daytime we could see clear and when I saw Joe Rao and Doc Stretched and a lady enter the Pierce-Arrow that Joe Rao owned. Joe was the first to get into the car, the lady was next and Doc was not in the car yet when I got there and I pulled say about two feet away from the Pierce-Arrow right alongside. I waved Doc

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away and he stopped short and I told Solly to go ahead and shoot him as he had the shotgun in his hands. As Solly was aiming his gun and it was not shooting but his feet were tapping a mile a minute by this time Joe had thrown the girl out of the car and he was on the run. I went for the gun that was on the seat of the car and I fired four shots at Joe Rao and I hit him in the buttocks, once. Now as I pull away I'm asking Solly what happened as if I didn't know that he froze but I wanted to hear what he had to say. He said that the safety was on the gun. I said what are you kidding. I opened the safety when we stopped at 126 Street, didn't I tell you that the gun was ready to fire. He didn't know what else to say the next day we got another phone call and this time Solly, Nickie and I went at 138 and 139 Street and St. Anne Ave. and there we say the guy that we got the phone call to shoot. Now before I came to a stop Nickie and Solly started to shoot from in the car. The first thing you know that the guy ran in a hallway and got away. Now we go back to the apartment and someone came there and wanted to know what is happening as there were too many misses in two days. I talked to him on the side and I told him to tell Buster and I want to get away from this apartment, I don't want to work with these guys any more. In a couple of days they sent us that is Nickie and I to what we

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called the haunted house, the reason why we called it the haunted house was because Mr. Maranzano was living there and he moved from there to Yonkers. Now when a boss lives in a house like we called the haunted house that house is dangerous because if one of the guys that had that phone number on his person is caught by the opposite mob, God know how many will come to this house knowing or thinking that the Boss is still there, because it was only a couple of days that Mr. Maranzano had moved from L. I. to Yonkers. Now Nickie and I go into the house, it was a nine room house. Now the idea of us being there was in case someone called for Mr. Maranzano we gill give them a new number to call. Now as I looked the house over I told Nickie that the best thing for us to do at night was to say in one room upstairs and lock ourselves in this way at night they cannot sneak up on us by going from one room into another. I said its best we keep a bucket than jeopardize our lives. Then in the daytime we can see what is going on. He agreed and that is the way we lived there. Now when we were there about a month I got an idea. I told Nickie as he has a girl how about we take turns in going out and meet our girls as for sure both of us cannot go togther as one of us must be there to answer the phone. I said to Nickie you go out one night and I go out the following night, how do

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you like it, he said fine. I said you go first, He said OK, so I let him go the first night. Now he comes back at 12 o'clock, he said that he could not enjoy himself thinking about me being alone in the big house while he was out enjoying himself. I said Nickie this is no good you make me feel bad. I can't come back at 12 o'clock I just as well don't go anywhere you put me in a spot, that is not fair, I got to go all the way into the Bronx how can I get back here by 12 o'clock. No Nickie I said I ain't going anywhere. Nickie said why don't you make her come to Long Island and I said and if she comes to Long Island how could I get here by 12 o'clock he said Joe about a mile from here there are furnished rooms and as long as I know where you are and if anything goes wrong I can call you. I said its a good idea, I'll call you and I'll give you the phone number of the place where I'm at. I said fine do you know the name of the street where these furnished rooms are he said yes so I picked up the phone and I called May up in the Bronx and I told her to meet at at such and such a street as I'm sure I don't remember where at this time I told her that I will pick her up at seven o'clock sharp. I told her first get a cab then from a cab get on a train and then leave the train and get on a cab again and make sure that she kept her eyes open. So that night I met her at seven o'clock and we went and had

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the room we had rented earlier. Now about three o'clock in the morning I heard a knock on the door and as I already asked the landlady in advance that if it will be OK if someone came and call me I also told her that I would have a code by knocking on the door so many taps if I wanted to see the party or not after all I had to be careful we were in war for this I gave the landlady an extra five dollars in advance. This is no time to chisel. When I heard the knock and as I was on the ground floor and right in the back room facing the front door I did not know the fellow that came and call for me, now I went to sleep when he left but I did not sleep all night, especially when I called the haunted house and I did not get an answer. Now I was really worried, we stood up most of the night and May was telling me I don't know what you got into but she did not like it. I was agreeing with her all night and I really meant it now after all the troubles I had all these years I still agree with her but its too late now. Now about seven o'clock in the morning another guy came and call me this guy I knew he was the guy that lived in the next house and he knew what it was all about as he was a friend of the guy who owned the house and the guy who owned the house was one of the boys but he was a greaseball and Italian born. I told the landlady that it was OK to let him in and when he came in he asked

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to the haunted house. OK Nickie he said, OK. Now the landlady asked rne if everything was alright. I said yes. I gave her some story but I don't remember just what but she was a nice German woman.

Three o'clock in the afternoon Nickie called me and I met him and we went back to the haunted house as it started to snow. About seven o'clock that night Buster and another guy came over and Buster and I drove to Yonkers and we left the other guy in the haunted house to keep Nickie company while we drove to Yonkers. I told Buster the truth what really happened and he said to tell the old man as there is nothing wrong with that you did as you did not leave the house alone. I'm sure he won't say anything after all he is got his wife with him and he know that we are young fellows and it ain't your fault if Nickie saw or got scared because he was alone. You were alone the night before so we reached Yonkers and when I got into the house everyone was laughing. What happened Joe you made us come there with three cars. We got a phone call from the guy next door he told us that you guys saw someone and that you both jumped out the window. I said I know that Buster had told me all about it so they asked me were you there when it happened, I said no. So Joe Profaci and the Doc were kidding me and so was Bobby Doyle. Now the old man called me in his room

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and I told him the story and he said it could happened to anyone so long as you did not leave the house alone. I said I would not do a thing like that so he asked me what shall he do with Nickie. I said its better you let him go with the rest of the Americanized boys and when I am finished with the house in Long Island I would like to come here in Yonkers with you he said OK. I ate there and then Buster and Doc drove me back to Long Island.

A couple of days later they sent me another guy to stay with me in Long Island and Nickie went somewhere in the Bronx with the Gap and Solly. The one who replaced Nickie was Joe Palisades Rosato, he was another bargain he would awaken me every half hour and hear all kinds of noise. He lasted about four or five days and they they gave me another guy and this guy used to see all kinds of lights as the house was on the corner and at night when a car made a turn naturally the lights will shine in the house and he also will wake me up as I was a heavy sleeper, these guys could not sleep at night, they will bother me most of the night. His name Was Charlie Scoop. Well it lasted one more week and the haunted house was closed and I went to live in Yonkers.

Now while I am at the headquarters I learned quite a lot. First

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me that after those guys waited into my apartment for about seven weeks he, Bobby Doyle, comes out of the sky and he gets a break the first time he comes. Oh I didn't know that Bobby come to the ground floor apartment sure he said then there was four of them. He said yes but only three did the shooting. Oh I said. Then Steve asked me did Buster tell you the way he ran right into a cop's hands. I said no. Yes he said when Buster came or jump out of the apartment and went around the corner he ran right into a policeman's arms. The cop asked Buster what's the trouble and Buster told him he didn't know he was running because he heard shots. The cop asked where and Buster pointed towards the building and the cop ran towards the building and Buster took off. Oh I see is all I said. Now Steve is telling me that I must go with him as he wants to get Joe Baker in the Forham section of the Bronx. He asked me if I know Joe Baker. I said sure I know him and I like him. Steve said don't let the old man hear that you like him. I said why he said the old man hates him and I said well I didn't mean anything, I just like him and what is that got to do if I like him, after all he is Ciro Morello's nephew if he is got to go he goes what can I do. Well tomorrow you and I will take a ride to 187 Street and Arthur Ave. and see if we can get him. I said ...

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the old man's room and he told the old man is it OK if I take Joe with me to look for Joe Baker? So the old man asked me if I knew him. I said yes. Then the old man said, "Listen Joe I don't want anyone else hit, all I want is Joe Baker" and then asked me if I knew tham all. "Well," I said, "I know most of them from the days when I was stealing, but I don't know who is connected or is not." "Well," he said, "all I want is Joe Baker, so you need not know. Later on we will tell you who is who." Now I ask Steve why does he want Joe Baker so bad. Well he said Joe Baker used to hijack the old man's alcoholic trucks and he wants to get even. Oh I see, I said. So the next day we went out looking for Joe Baker. I drove around the neighborhood and most of the boys were there but not Joe Baker. Now Steve is asking me if I'm sure if Joe Baker wasn't there. I said yes I was. Now the next day I asked for a faster car as I had a Ford the day before so they gave me the Mormon and it was brand new. This time they made another guy come because he also knew Joe Baker. Now we are three and I drove to 187 Street and the same boys were there but no Joe Baker, so I told Steve see you think I am lying. Well he said I only want to make sure. As we are riding back to Yonkers and we were on Boston Post Road I notice a car tailing us. I told the both of them don't look behind as I think that We are getting a tail. Now

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as Boston Road is a wide Avenue I told these guys to have a pencil ready and I will make a four corner turn and I will be in back of them and we will take their license number and we will give it to the old man. So that is just what I did. They had a big Lincoln and it was grey and they ran like hell. Now we get back to Yonkers and the old man is waiting for me in front of the house and he has the license plate number of my car in his hands and he tells me that I cannot use the Mormon any more as they took my number. I hand him the other cars number and when he saw I had the right number he hops with joy, especially when he saw that it was a Lincoln. Boy was he happy. He said that is what I like a fellow that is on the job. Then he asked me what happened and I told him and he said they are a bunch of phonies they went back and they reported that they chased me all over the Bronx, as you know he said I have spies among them and I got a call telling me they almost got a couple of my boys but my boys ran away on them. So I said ask these two guys who ran away on who. So he said that he believe me and the proof is that you got their number, good for you he said we were preparing to move again. So I said you need not move now Steve is satisfied and we used the Ford again and in a couple of days we were back on our way to 187 Street and as I passed 187 Streed and I was nearing Third Ave. Steve

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yelled at me and told me to make a four corner turn as he said he saw a big boss so I asked him if he was sure as I did not know the man so I turned and I pulled right alongside of this big boss. This was also a Lincoln and I sat at the wheel while Steve took aim at the man. Steve had a pump gun and he fired one shot and as he did so the man in the other car went with the shot and threw himself on the floor of his car. Now Steve is yelling with all his might for me to step on the gas. So I told him that he is not hit to take another shot as I figured he is a big boss and it better to finish something that we started but you could not control Steve. He was just yelling step on it. I was dissappointed as these guys talk a good mob and then when the action comes they get all excited so I went about six blocks and I told him to get off the car as I will go back alone. I figured I'll be better off alone as he was insisting that he hit the guy and I did not want to argue with him. Again the old man is waiting for me in front of the house and all the boys were standing there with him and he asked me as I walked in the house who did he tell you the guy was. I said that he told me that the guy was a big boss. The old man told me that he told you wrong that the guy is not even a member. So I said OK you need not worry about it because the guy is OK he wasn't hit and if he did get hit I can rest assure you that he ain't hurt as he went with the shot. ...

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the old man spoke and then hung up and he ran to me and gave me a hug he said that was one of my spies and he just told me that Paul is alright and I asked who is Paul and he said the guy that Steve hit. Oh I said then I'm right and he said yes and then I said I don't want to work with Steve any more and he said don't worry you won't. He said that he was going to get rid of Steve by sending him on a farm for the rest of the war then I told Buster the way he was yelling and I told Buster that hereafter I want to work with him as I am getting sick with these two guys. I did not want to say anything the other day but when I made that four corner turn on Boston Road I told them to shoot a couple of shots at those guys you see what happened they went back and said that we ran away. So Buster said I was thinking that I wonder why you guys didn't take a couple of shots at those guys so I told him because they were ducking they were afraid that the other guys were going to shoot that's why. If it wasn't for me I said we wouldn't had gotten the plate number neither so you see what I mean. I told Buster what a bad showing we would had made especially Solly I told Buster if we got to go anywhere see that he don't come. I see what you mean Buster said. Them guys in the other car I said were no bargain either. I knew two of them I told Buster but I don't know if they are in, meaning in the mob. Now Buster takes ...

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we met that is how we got together and he went on to tell me about Peter Morello, the guy who got hit on 116 Street. He told me about himself in Chicago how they killed someone in his family and how he was fighting them all by himself and how the old man got in touch with him and asked him to join in with him in this war and how they got the clutching hand. He said that there was a deal made between Steve Rannelli and the old man. He said you guys went out to war against Joe the Boss and at the same time we went out to war against Joe the Boss. Buster I said all I know is that I was asked to get about a half dozen guys and that we were going to war against Ciro Morello and that is all I know and they told me that the odds is against us and if we win that we will be in good shape now you tell me that you guys did not start together with these guys. He said no Joe the Boss sentenced all my nationality to death so we got together and we are fighting them, what would we have to lose we going to die anyway. I see I said how did you guys get together with these guys that I'm with. Let me understand it straight, you see your boss is Tom Gagaliano they killed his boss for nothing and they put another boss in his place you know about that. I said yes you guys killed the new boss that they put there you know that Bobby Doyle killed him don't you. I said yes. Now Buster tells me that he Buster killed another boss but I don't

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remember who he told me although he told me, so you guys knew that they did not kill him so you guys figured that there is someone else doing this and they made their business to find out who is doing it, and as Steve Ranelli knew the old man he found out that it was us that was doing it. Some how he got in touch with the old man and they made a deal between them, after all they got to be sure of one another, so your people gave us a name for us to kill and the old man gave Tom Gagaliano a name for you guy to kill and when that was done we got together and now we are working as a team and we are all one. So I asked when this is over I could come with you if I want he said sure you can so I asked him how do you feel about me coming with you he said I hope so. Now we are told to go to Frank Scalise house, as the old man explained to us that the fellow that Steve shot on 187 Street turned out for the best as his brother is a Cosa Nostra member and as long as it did not turn out to be a serious wound and that he only got a little of his ear cut off they are willing to come on our side. Now I want four of you guys to go and see what he has in mind. He said I want you all to be very careful I know he means well but I ain't taking any chances so Buster, Joe, the Doc and Solly, you guys go and the Doc will do all the talking. So we went to Frank's house and it was way up in the Bronx but I don't remember. As Frank was alone at his house he

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greeted us pretty nice so he talk to the Doc on the side and we had coffee and we left in about an hour and on the way back the Doc told us that Frank wants to get Joe Baker for the old man to prove that he is sincere, so when we got back to Yonkers and the Doc explained everything to the old man, the old man said that he will give Frank only two weeks for him to get Joe Baker and when the two weeks are up he will take personal charge of Joe Baker. Well the two weeks were up and nothing happened. Now I understand that they going to get an apartment in the heart of Forham and the apartment is going to be used to get Joe Baker and as I know who Joe Baker is I am one of the guys to go. Buster, Nick Capazzi and Solly, and as Solly knows who Joe Baker is the old man figures that it is better four eyes than two. Now we are awaken one night and it was four o'clock in the morning and we were told to go to a certain address and a certain apartment on Crescent Ave. at 187 Street, which is across the street from an office that Joe Baker goes. Well we found the empty apartment and it was on the top floor. The first day we went we stayed there until it got dark and then we will leave. Now the second day we got up at four o'clock again and we parked the Ford in another block and again we went into the apartment and Joe Baker showed up as he went into the office he picked up something and as the

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office was about 8 feet from the corner he will pick up something and he will walk that eight feet and he will turn the corner and this was his routine every morning at the same time, say about 9 o'clock in the morning. Some how they found out what he will pick up will pick up some money every morning and he will go to the bank. Now every time Joe showed up Buster will take aim and by the time he was set to pull the trigger Joe is making his turn. Now this was going on all the time. We went there every day but Sunday. Now I was always thinking that if these guys should find out that we are going to this apartment they will blow us out of there. Now as we were watching across the street we were taking every car number that stopped in front of that office. We even saw the car that tried to tail us that day on Boston Road. So that's all that was going on a few times Joe Profaci was coming to see what it was all about and all we will be doing all day will be just telling stories and talking about the Family, what I mean about the Family, it was not my family, I mean the Family mob. Gee Joe Profaci sure was telling me everything there was to know about our Family. Now we are going there about 5, 6, 7 weeks, I don't remember so one day I was telling the one in charge that someday they are going to catch up with us. I was telling them that you guys don't know as you are not from New York, this is one of their main hangouts and we are

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taking too many chances going in and out of here one day they will spot us and I can't say that you will see what will happen because if they do find out about us we won't be around to know what happened. So I said that I have an idea but I'm afraid to talk. I think it was Nick that had charge so I told them that we are not going to do anything here no matter how long we come here so here is what I like to do -- this guy come every day and he never missed is that right. They said that's right. So I said I suggest that we will go to the apartment on the first floor and we will stick up the people, say we go in there about 8 o'clock in the morning and we will have about an hour to wait when Joe shows up then you could shoot him. If we blow it by Joe not showing up you ain't blowing anything because you ain't going to do anything any way. So Nick said that he will take it up with the old man tonight and see what he says. So I said make sure that you tell him your opinion and make him understand that there is very little hope of doing anything from this apartment. So Nick said the old man will want to talk to you if he wants to know I'm sure he will want to talk to you. So that night the old man called me in his room and I explained everything to him. He told me to go ahead and take a chance. I'm getting worried about you guys so tell me what you need. I said that I need two springs from a truck and that one of them is got to be very sharp. I'm

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afraid to tap on the door as people are not opening any doors so freely, that's why I want tools. Well that day when the old man spoke to me in the wee hours of the morning we didn't even go back to the apartment on the top ?oor because they had to get the tools for me. The next morning we got up four o'clock in the morning and Bobby Doyle came over and asked me if I knew what I was doing. He said I am going to look bad if I fail. I said I am not going to look bad because the old man himself is disgusted as we are going there too long and if we do blow it we ain't blowing anything because you ain't going to do anything anyway. So that morning we went to the top floor apartment and we waited until eight o'clock and we went downstairs, Solly and I, and I jimmied the door opened and when we walked into the apartment as it had a long hall. To our surprise we found three painters. They were painting the empty rooms. We had the guns in our hands and they wanted to give us their money and I told them that we did not want their money, just go on painting to way you were doing and everyone will be happy and no one will bother you and I sent Solly to go and call the other two guys and that they should make sure that their guns are all set before they come down as Solly went upstairs one of the painters called me and told me that he is a friend of Joe Baker and that Joe Baker himself had rented this apartment. So I told him don't worry

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about anything as he won't see Joe Baker any more. So he looked at me wondering what I had said, I could see that he was puzzled. Now I was looking across the street and I could see very clear straight ahead and that was where the office was. Now the other two came down and they had their guns ready and about 9 o'clock Joe came and he went into the office and when he opened the door of the office is the time that I left. I left so that I can have the car started and be ready to go just as soon as they will come. I'll be fair and say that I cannot remember if I heard the shots or not. All I know that I had to have the car ready when they come. I was in the car less than a minute when they came. They got into the car and I went about 6 or 7 blocks and I left two guys off the car and I was on my way to Yonkers. Now Solly was telling me as we were on our way to Yonkers that he felt bad because Joe Baker came out of the office and as he reached the corner his wife met him and she handed him something and they kissed and he went the other way and the wife just stayed there and was watching him go when Buster had to shoot. It all happened so fast if we will had had another chance at Joe some other time we would had done nothing this time. We had no choice as this was our first and last chance we would had had. So I asked sadly as I said before that I liked Joe Baker and also asked if Nick fired he said yes. Solly

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back. Now we got to Yonkers and we went into the house and the old man greeted us and he was very happy. All of a sudden I asked the old man if I would had spoken to him and would had told him that I liked Joe Baker would he had forgotten about him. He said no Joe he was working too hard on us you know he is Ciro's nephew. So I said I know. We got the news some hours later that Joe died in the hospital and when they had him in the funeral parlor Ciro put one hand on the coffin and the other hand he held high in the air and swore that he will avenge Joe's death. When the old man heard about this he sent someone at the funeral parlor to see if there was a chance to get Ciro Morello at the wake. Naturally it was a spy but word came that it was impossible to do anything. Right after the Joe Baker affair I was loaned to Newark for about five Weeks as I was supposed to drive a truck as they were after a very important man. I remember his name but it is a hard name and I will try to do the best I can -- his name was Pordanor. He was a rich man and is important in Newark today. While I was in Newark I met quite a few boys. I met Tom Bell, Sam Accardo, Sam Monicor, Don Steve, a fellow named Joe and they were also after Richie. This Richie was shot in the head by Steve Ranelli with a shot gun and he hit him with all the blast in the head but Richie did not get hurt as the powder in the shells was very weak and we did not get anyone on the job that I was assigned to so I came back to N.Y.C. and right after I came back I was sent to the Haunted House on Long Island. Now I started to tell Buster I wanted to get away from Yonkers as I had on my mind that I wanted to go out and make some money. I asked him if he could talk to the old man. He said Joe right now there is no one that can talk to the old man better than you. He said you don't know what a favor you did to him and ourselves because we need not get up four o'clock in the morning. He asked me where would you want to go. As I was already thinking about it before I asked Buster I had the answer - I told him that I

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Charlie Lucky and Vito Genovese and they are talking about making peace so be careful as it looks as though that it won't be long before there will be peace. Charlie and Vito I don't know who they are but the old man tells me everything. Are trying to get Joe the Boss, if they get Joe the Boss the trouble will be over. The reason why I know Buster said is because the old man feels bad - you see the old man wants to get Joe the Boss himself but they, Charlie and Vito, said that they themselves want to do it as they have a grudge of their own - no one likes him. Well anyway I said I'm glad to hear it, but I'll tell you the truth I said I really want to go and meet the girl you know Buster we are young and he said you not kidding if he had a girl he would want to see her too but he said I'm from Chicago and I don't know anyone over here with that the old man happened to pass by us and he gave me a nice smile and Buster looked at me as if to say go ahead so I called the old man and I asked him and he said why not I know you can take care of yourselves and beside you earned it so I asked him if I can take one of the Fords as I cannot use my car as it is too well-known. He said OK and he told me Joe the only thing I can tell you is to be careful as you know Joe we can feel sorry for you if anything happened you know it is almost over. We are just waiting to get Joe the Boss that's all there isn't anything to do until then we all we had to do so go ahead

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Pelham Parkway and 187 Street. He said Joe we are a couple of thousand now, when we started we were only 40, do you remember. I said yes and then he said I had them, the ones who came on our side, to take care of what I wanted. We did not even use our own men. But he does like to use his own men on Joe the Boss. So I told Buster that it was OK and he was happy and they are all telling me to be careful and I know what they meant and they were telling me not to go out and steal. Well I got whatever I had in the car and I asked the old man for fifty dollars and he handed me 100 dollars and I left and went to Danny as he lived in L.I. When I got there Danny was there alone, he told me please day and night I have been alone because my stupid wife saw a gun under my pillow and as she is a square she called the cops and now I am out on bail. Oh Gee I said I can't stay here. He said come with me and see what I get for 20 dollars a week and I will pay half of the rent as I am free and I could make some money while you are all tied up and you cannot hustle. I said Dan I'm going to call the boys and I'm going to crash a couple of stores. Good he said can I come. I said why do you think that I came here for. We we went and got the room and it was a swell place and there was a phone in the hall right next to my room and Dan was making a list of what he had to buy and what kind of pots

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to bring over. That night I called Monk and was he glad to hear from me. I told him to get a car for the following night and make sure that he brought Johnnie D, because Nickie will not be with us and beside Johnnie D knows Long Island pretty good and you pick out a good store in Long Island and he said he will take care of everything and where will he meet me and I gave him the phone and I told him to write it in code key. I said before I hung up bring only Johnnie with you of course and the tools. I said I have Danny here. OK he said. So the next night they called me about four o'clock in the morning and I met them on the corner. Dan was with me and to make it short we made good as they were driving me back to the flat Dan told them "Listen boys when you bring the swag to Fat West tell him that he is going to give 25 dollars for Joe, tell him that Joe wasn't with us tonight so that Joe will have some decent money in his pocket," so Monk said we will all put in 25 dollars apiece, this way if Joe is got 300 dollars coming to him he will get an extra 100 dollars, so I said thanks. The next night Dan picked up the money and that is what it was, about 400 dollars all together and I felt rich so I called May and she was not home so I told her mother that I will call the next night. Now that night Dan tells me that the Gap called him and that the Gap wanted to talk to me and I told Dan to call him and when he was on the phone

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as he knew I couldn't move so I said already I did something. Yes he said how about we go out and I said where, he said we go all the way out in the end of Long Island. I said just you and I he said I'll bring Tommie with me. I said good you call Dan and let me know when the next afternoon Dan came over and he told me the Tap and Tommie are going to stop in front of his house at 10 o'clock that night. So I called May and I told her that I will call the following night. So that night I met them in front of Dan's house and we left as Dan could not come with us because we did not want to take a chance in case anything may happen so I told Danny that I will see him when I will get back so when I got into the car they told me that we will go to Valley Stream, Long Island at the Pavilion Royal as it was a classy place and no racket guys will be out there so we went to Valley Strean and when we got there it was quite a distance from where we were as we were walking in the place we saw a couple of guys that Tommie thought were against us as I didn't know so I asked Tom what will we do. He said nothing we will go in. I said OK and the Gap said the hell with them we got guns in case of anything so as soon as we sat down the waiter came over and said that the table across the way was sending us a drink. So we accepted the drinks and we wish them luck and we order something to eat and we called the waiter and we sent the other table a round of drinks. As Tommie Brown is a classy guy he asked me how much money

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... s. He was glad he explained ... would like to take the check ... an impression and we want them to think that we got money as this trouble is about to be ended. I said Tommie I'll pay for the both tables as I'm going to tell the truth to you I went out with some of the boys and we crashed a joint in Long Island and I got 400 dollars for my share so you need not worry. There ain't a man on earth that is loose with money like Tommie is and I was happy to be in a spot to be able to pay just once when I was in Tommie Brown's company you can never pick up a tab if Tommie is around, so he called the waiter and he told him that when those guys on the other table were ready to leave to make double sure that he will bring us their check so that is what the waiter did naturally he had to get together with the waiter on the other table, so the both checks by the time we left amounted to 300 dollars that included a good tip for both waiters. We stayed in the place for a long time. I guess the both tables were waiting for one another to leave. All the time we were there we were sending drinks freely to one another's table. Gee I felt good because I was able to pay. Well when I got back I called for Monk again and we went out again this time we went to Brooklyn as Johnnie knew how to get to Brooklyn

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Some detective was over to see me and he told me that he had Buster's picture but he never did show it to me. The same detective wrote in to the FBI and he wrote all about Buster from Chicago. The fellow that I talked about on TV. I was shocked that there was no record on Buster when I say no record I mean it was off the police record that Buster got killed. Well I heard that they could not come up with Buster's record. I did not need to get hit on the head to know why there was no record of Buster being killed. Not only was Buster's record missing also Steve Ranelli's record was missing and these two were very important in my life at that time. Well I did not say anything I could had said on TV that the police took out the record of both of these two fellows. Now this detective that came and see me he showed me Steve's picture thinking that I won't remember him but I did and I kept the picture and I asked the detective why he did not produce the picture at the right time. Well I understand that he was sore at me because I said on TV that the police thre Abe Rellis out the window while Abe was in their custody. I don't see why the detective or anyone else should be sore at me especially when it is the truth. It reminds me of the people that are sore at me for saying bad things about the Italians. Well I'll say it again I am an Italian myself does anyone think that I would say something without any foundation. I shall s y not but I do want to tell the readers of America that there are a few

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more that are telling the Government the same thing that I am telling but they would not come forward so what do they want me to say that the mob guys are Germans. Gee it don't make any sense to me to hear that they feel hurt because of the Italian people. I am an Italian I'll say it again and that is it. One day they would find out for themselves they would remember me when they would find out, I promise you. They feel so bad yet there is a guy killed here and there is a guy killed there - this goes the same way for the junk agent - there is not a man alive that gave them information with the exception of one and that is the guy that sent about forty-three guys to jail, including myself. His name is Salvatore Rinando. He got his release about eight or ten months ago even though they just missed him in Westchester County jail all the guys that would go after him are in jail. The mob would not help getting him because the mob feels that the guys that Solly sent to jail were not supposed to fool with junk. Well there are a handful that fooled with junk the rest of them may of fooled with junk with Solly but it was a long time ago but Solly moved up the dates in other words if they did anything with Solly in 1950 he turned the dates to say 1958 in other words he lied. Now when they all went to jail they set Solly free but I don't say they would get him now but they will get him. I know they would because he is with his family and when a guy like Solly stays with his family it will be a matter of time. I can't hold against him for sending me to jail because I know that he did not want to send me

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to jail but an agent by the name of Frank Savaggie made Solly do it because he the agent was mad at me because I did not do what he wanted me to do he wanted to become a big man on my information but he the agent says that I made a fool out of him. I never heard of such a thing. Here is a man makes an arrest and framed me in another case and got me an extra twenty years. I don't believe that he sleeps well at night if a guy gets so selfish and tried to become a great man over night and when he is told that he must be on the job for at least five or six years he blows his top. I know that he felt bad about what he done to me as he told me so he realized that he should not take a personal interest in me. I tell you more about this agent when I get to the year 1962. I want to finish telling you about Buster and how I got close to him when we met at a young age. Of course I met him during the War of 1930. He was a kid and as I understand he came from Chicago and I don't know who killed someone in Buster's family but I do know that Buster warred against Al Capone's mob and Buster was all alone and before my old boss Mr. Manazano, I don't know how, he got hold of Buster and had Buster come here to New York somewhere around 1930 to join him in the car against Joe the Boss. Well I learned not only from Buster but from the guy that were with him and when these guys tell you something they don't tell any fairy tales the guys that told me about Buster were guys like Joe Profaci and guys like him as Buster were young and I was young. We ...

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- 333d -

ask the old man to send me with him. One time he Buster had to go somewhere out of town and he Buster asked the old man to let me go along with him but the old man sent someone else instead of me and when Buster got back he told me that he was sorry that I did not go along because if I did go with him two lives would had been saved so I asked him how and he told me that these two guys were sent out of town to get together with some people that was supposed to be against the old man the guys that they were supposed to meet were Buster and the guy that went with Buster if I had went it would had been I and Buster that these guys thought that we were against the old man, Mr. Manazano, instead they walked into a trap.

When they found out that they walked into a trap they pleaded for their lives and they told Buster that they had a couple of kids apiece and they told Buster after all we came here because they sent us here so give us a break and let us go and they promised Buster that they would never come back. This way the mob would think that they were dead but Buster did not trust the other guy and he was forced to kill them both and that is why Buster hoped that I was with him instead of the other guy. He Buster said that he would had trusted me and he would had let the guys go. I told Buster you are not kidding you know I would had let the guys go. Gee I told Buster now I feel bad that they did not make me come with you. Now you know why I liked Buster because he had a heart and I hope the reader would not

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laugh when I say that Buster had a heart but you must remember that the other two guys went there to kill Buster and the guy that was with Buster. Would the other guys had let Buster go? We don't know but Buster was thinking of letting them go only he Buster did not trust his partner. He was afraid that the other guy would had told the old man but Buster knew me by this time and he knew that I also had a heart. I wish the young mob guys read this and they will realize that this life was a tough life in the old days and believe me I was sorry that I got hooked and I used to tell Buster - in fact a few times I told Buster let's run away on the mob and we would get lost and Buster used to laugh. Now I told you about some of the police and about one of the junk agents and yet they think that I have been rude. I could had said plenty more so they should not hold anything against me considering. I also warned Buster not to get in any cheap argiment that I mean was such as to get in a fight with young fellows - say like in a cheap crap game because he was cutting one of the games down on the East Side - by cutting I mean taking a percentage when the shooter made some profit whenhe got through shooting.

I knew they would use that kind of a bait on Buster because he was something to worry about as they knew what he done in Chicago all by himself and what he had done in the Joe the Boss and Maranzano war when I went to the wake of all the things they told his friends was that they already got even for Buster's death so that there won't be any hard feelings but it was all lies, they got rid of him because they feared him.

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The reason why I wrote about Buster and the two guys that he was forced to kill is to show the world and the young soldiers how the Bosses sent these two guys to their doom to suit their own purposes. If Buster would had gotten caught with his pants down the two guys that Buster killed were not going to kill Buster and his friend right away they would had held Buster and his friend and tortured them to force out of them the whereabouts of Marazano because Mr. Marazano was the real brains that was giving Joe the Boss all the trouble and Joe the Boss' outfit at that time was the same outfit we have today. Only today it is ruled by Vito Genovese. In other words, Joe the Boss was just as powerful in those days as Vito Genovese is today. I want the soldiers to read what I am writing because they walk around with their heads so high in the air that only their loved ones can stand them. They don't know what this life really is and if they knew most of them will run and never stop running. They are very lucky that today they don't use that kind of pressure. Joe the Boss knew in his heart that those two boys had the odds of ninety to one that they may never come back but still he sent them because he was desperate and he knew that he was about to lost the war. Of course I'm talking about the War of 1930. But the Bosses like Vito Genovese work differently If anyone starts any trouble today against them they make it their business to let the police know all about it by talking on the phone and they talk about just who

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is giving them trouble and they make sure that they mention the name of the troublemaker - like in the case of the Gallo affair everyone on earth knew that the Gallo boys had kidnapped a few of the bosses and then let them go. It was talked about so much on the phone until the police got wind of it and the police went all out to get the Gallo boys. But as long as it is gangsters against gangsters the police seemed to go after the Gallo boys and they never locked up any of the bosses that was kidnapped. Life got to be so sweet for the bosses and there is so much money involved today that they don't even want to retire. They are supposed to retire at the age of sixty-five and Vito Genovese and a couple of other bosses are well over the sixty-five mark. Do they retire? No I'll tell you why. In the old days a boss never saw a million dollars, they saw say like one hundred fifty thousand or two hundred thousand but as I said never a million as they make today. So the life got to be so sweet that they want to be boss until they are a hundred that's why I say that this second government would get to be so powerful that it would be impossible to break it up. One day the American people would remember what I am telling them.

Only with one gambling house in Las Vegas that I know of earned five hundred thousand dollars a month. The government knows about it but cannot get the evidence but one day they will get the evidence and then the public would hear how much the mob takes in on gambling.

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The next day I collected and I called May and I met her that night and she was telling me that a couple of guys went up her Mother's house about two months before and they told her Mother that if your daughter don't stay away from Joe that they are going to kill both of them so I got in touch with the old man through Tommie. He knew that I wanted to see him.

Well someone had to pick me up as we cannot go there on our own always if someone wants to get to Yonkers like I was trying to do they never let you or anyone else drive there yourself, because they will never know if someone stuck you up or what. So the boys came and pick me up and when I got to Yonkers and I told him what I had to say he told me that I will have to stay in the Yonkers house for a couple of days. So a couple of days passed and the old man had all of us that was at the house lined all around the room standing with our back to the wall and in the middle of the room there was a man I never saw before, he had sort of grey hair, the old man called my name and he told me to tell my story to this man. So I did. Now all the boys heard this and they were mad and the old man that was in the middle of the room was looking everyone over and he was shaking his head. Now Mr. Manarzano started to talk to the man and he told him you heard what Joe said the old man said yes well this is what I want you to bring back tell them ...

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or a friend or anything that belongs to any of the boys tell them we will kill the babies in their wives stomach. Now I asked who was this man and the old man told me that we have what you call a truce man, this man brings messages to the both mobs. The old man explained if we did not have a man to meet us and the other people we are fighting there will never be peace that's why we have men like him. He comes and he tells us that those guys want to make up on such and such a condition. If we don't like it we just say no.

So I said how does he get over here, Oh the old man said he gets in touch with someone who in turn gets in touch with someone and this someone will get in touch with me then I sent the boys to pick him up and when they do pick him up they blindfold him and they drive him here. Now when he leaves they blind fold him again. Oh I said I see. Now the old man asked me if I was satisfied. Oh yes I said so I asked him if I could leave he said yes so the boys drove me a little out of Yonkers and I took a cab. I didn't want them to come all the way. I went back to Long Island and again I called Monk and Itell him to get a car and again we went to Brooklyn and again I got four hundred dollars and I took a rest for a couple of days. I was going to the movie on Steinway Ave. which is like Broadway in New York. We went out again and into Brooklyn and this time we had about half of the load when the Dolly ...

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the two policemen won't give an edge they kept right on our heels. Well I had to go something to lose them having a half of the load on the car and four men, it was kind of hard on turns so I put my best and I was turning on two wheels but we got away. It took a lot doings but I did it. The next day there was a big headline in the papers it ran like this "Thugs Elude Police in Brooklyn Burglary" and it went on telling the story so I was called and I was told that the old man wants to see me. I don't remember who got in touch with Dan but I was told to be at his house at a certain time. Well the boys came over naturally Bust was there and he was laughing. I got in the car and we went to Yonkers. Now Buster started to tell me that was you in Brooklyn. I said yes well tell him the truth don't try to lie he is worried and all he wants you to do is stop. I think he is going to ask you for the suits to give them out to the boys. I said Buster those suits are gone already and besides it will be like stealing them again and we only got about 47 suits as the cops came when he had just started to load. They were so close that they were about 100 feet away when we started to go. Believe me they were tough cops. Buster said the old man is got the papers and he is going to read it to you. That's why I'm telling you not to lie. Everyone was laughing in the car, there was three of us. Well we got to Yonkers and as I went into the ...

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kissed him on both cheeks as those days we used to kiss when we met. He told me to sit down and he went on to read the headline out loud and when he got through he said nice piece of work, do you know these guys. I said yes he said who are they. I said me and my friends. Oh he said and he laughed.

He said Joe I'm sorry I must order you to stop stealing and if you got the suits yet I'll buy them and give them out to the boys and I told him the same thing that I told Buster and he agreed with me. Now he said can you stop or shall I keep you here. I said that I'll stop. He said he will see to it that I will get a few dollars every week and I said OK and they brought me out of Yonkers and again I took a cab. I handed Buster a 50 dollars and the Doc a 20 and I went back to Long Island and I gave the boys the news and I said that I am a retired burglar. I was told to stop and it was sad news for Monk. All I could do now was hang around and take it easy with the money I must say that Tommie was always sending me what he could. So for about five or six weeks I did nothing but go to the movies and taking long rides and things like visiting one guy here and one guy there. Of course I mean boys like Nickie and that kind.

I will not bother guys like Monk or Buck only when I need them. Finally I received a phone call from Tom Gagalino and he gives me the news that they got the chinaman in Coney Island by the chinaman he meant Joe the Boss. When-

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... said it all over but not to move until I would be called and that took about two weeks. Now let me tell you what I found out about Tom Gagliano. He put out of his own pocket $140,000 into this war and up to today I know he never got a nickel back and never had a piece of any racket. All I know he was a building contractor and he went to jail for one year for income tax. I must go ahead of my story as I am in a position to tell it now Tom Gagliano told Tony Bender once in Jersey at Fort Lee over at Duke's Res. as I was on the carpet for something, I don't remember, when the carpet was over Tom called Tony Bender and warned him that he wanted him to know Mr. Tony Bender that we are watching over Joe, don't think that you will get away with anything that you are trying to pull on Joe. Tony dodged it and said that he was treating me good. So Tom said yes I know how good you are treating him that's why we are here just becareful he warned him again as I willgo on with this story you will understand what I just told you.

Tom Gagliano died a natural death somewhere in the middle-fifties. I don't remember just when. As soon as he died believe me I knew I was in trouble, and I have tears in my eyes as I Write about Tom Gagliano.

Now I will go on with my story. I was informed to be somewhere in the Bronx and I was told that peace has been declared and in a few days ...

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[missing pages 339 through 354]

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but two or three babies were hit in their baby carriages and one of them died and Vincent Coll was picked up again and he was charged for the murder of this baby. Now Vincent Coil hires Samuel Leibowitz, the great judge of today in Brooklyn today, and as Leibowitz had a fine staff of investigators he found out the guy that had identified Coil was in Detroit at the time he was supposed to be 107 Street so the case was thrown out of court.

And now the banquet in Coney Island is underway. First I tell of the big money that came in that I know of. Steve from Buffalo sent $6,000 as the ticket cost $6.00 a ticket he sent 100 tickets to each of these guys that I will mention. There were more that sent the same amount but I do not remember.

Al Capone sent $6,000 and Charley Lucky sent $6,000 and Frank Scalice was at the table and he will greet every one that came in and he will say in Italian good luck and he will put his hands in his pocket and put money on the big trays that they had on two big tables at the entrance of the Hall. I don't remember where the banquet was held but it was held in Brooklyn. Well the banquet was held to three days and the old man said that he took in 115 thousand dollars but the rumor among us was that it was well over the 150 thousand dollars mark. Now we were waiting for some money and we did not bet any. So when I is at the office on 46 Street, Buster came over and told me to get some of the boys ready

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and that he wanted to go and steal as he was getting disgusted and I told him that I saw them split some money a few times and he told me that he got a few hundred dollars here and there and that was for trucks that they hijacked and I asked him how come I didn't get anything. I don't know he said. He was thinking about it. A few times he handed me a 50 dollar bill as I was going to the office back and forth then I asked him why don't you ask the old man why he left me out on the splits and he walked right over to the old man and he asked him and the old man told me that he knew what he was doing and that he did not want to involve me so Buster told me that this is the way he and I stood that if the old man ever asked him to kill Joe that he Buster will turn and shoot the old man so I shook Buster's hand and I said the same goes with me and I asked him if we had anymore that felt that way and he said yes, the Doc and he told me not to let Bobby Doyle know anything the way we felt. He told me that he did not trust Bobby Doyle as he Buster thought that he will sell you for a dime. He said that he has a lot of nerve and that's about all and I said we all got nerve so that makes us even. Good for you he said that's the way you should feel about anyone if the guys don't treat us right after all we did we will shoot them all so I asked him do you really want to go and steal, he said yes we will have some money in our pockets as they are not giving us

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anything we made a couple of splits in 3 months is that money so I said be up in Harlem tonight, not realizing that Bobby will be there so when Buster came 110 Street and he saw Bobby there he said to Bobby hello and Bobby said to Buster what are you doing up here in Harlem. Buster said I came looking for that guy Chuck that wants to shoot Joe and Bobby said don't you think that we are looking for him. I don't care Buster said I like Joe and anyone who want to shoot Joe I want to shoot him and that goes for anyone who wants to shoot Joe. He told Bobby that he thought that Joe is the best guy that he met in the whole outfit and Bobby said why do you think that I am with him. So Buster just looked and he said to me tonight I want to be with you where yougo I go as at this time I was going in midtown in an Italian Restaurant on 46 Street, between Broadway and Eighth Avenue, next to Dinny Moore the name of the Res was Freddie and Charlie Lucky, Mike, Marazanda, Dutch Schult and Mike Capollo used to come down there. So I told Bobby that I was not going down ther tonight so he asked me to drive him down there when it came around six o'clock that night so Buster and I drove him down to Freddie, and on the way down he told Buster that we looked suspicious, that we look as though as we are out for no good so we told Bobby that we are getting disgusted and we don't care for anything, after all the money that come in at the banquet, all we

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got was a 50 dollar bill so Bobby felt the same way and we did not trust him we were afraid of him because he was always up at the office and he was a Lt. So that night Buster and I went back to Harlem and we met Johnnie D and as he was already a member as I put him in three months before I told him tonight we are going out and crash a joint good Johnnie said I got a good one in Long Island and it is a good dress joint and we must raise the price on this load as Fat West didn't get anything for about 6 months so I told Johnnie get Monk to get the tools ready as I will go and see Fat West. So I took Buster along and I went and see Fat West and I told him to be ready tonight that we were going out and he was happy. Fat I said we want a better price for the dresses as this load is going to be dresses worth from 14 dollars up and we want $4.50 a dress. OK Fat said get a good load and we went back to 110 Street and Lexington and I was bringing Buster here and there and he said that he wanted hand out there in Harlem with us and I told him not yet the old man will kill me. He wants you down at the office every day so he told me to try and come down more often as I will keep him company. OK I said when I will come out of the house here after I will come down and have breakfast with you how is that? He said fine.

That night we went out and we got three hundred dresses and we ...

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afternoon Bobby Doyle came to 110 Street, Lexington Ave., and he looked all excited and he asked me what did you do go out with Buster. I said how do you know he said the old man called him and that he wanted to see me so I told Bobby is he mad and Bobby said yes then I'll take off and I'll take a ride to see Steve in Buffalo. Bobby said its a good idea by the time you come back he will forget all about it. So I ran over to Fat West and I took my end and I took off. I took some guy with me and I was in Buffalo in a couple of days there I met Steve M. and he entertained me and I met some boys. I met cowboy big Montana, Charlie Buffalo was in N. Y. C. I even met Frank Scarlice's two brothers, Joe and Charlie, as they were visiting in Buffalo. I went to every cabaret in Rochester and Buffalo and every good restaurant. I borrow five hundred from Steve M. and I came home when I got to N. Y. C. the next day I went to the office on 46 Street and before I had a chance to say anything the old man said in front of Charlie and Vito as they were up there, he said he had sent out a check to Buffalo and that he paid the five hundred I told him I thought that he will be mad but he said why should he be mad. Charlie Lucky and Vito Genovese gave me a good hand and the old man told me to be careful with those two as they are looking for your confidence. I told them that I notice it, now I sit around and one of the boys I don't remember who, started to talk about

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Charlie Lucky and he was saying that he had a hard job getting Joe the Boss out of his house and the only way they got him to come out by telling Joe the Boss that they had a chance to get Mr. Maranzano if he will come out and meet them they will explain everything to him, that's how they got him to go out in that Coney Island Restaurant and that Ciro Morello is finish. He was so shakey when they got into the car that he was not able to put the key of his car into the ignition, someone of the mob took the key off him and made him sit in the back. So he is much pretty bad ever since. This guy went on to say that he don't think that Ciro will be there too long he think they are going to break him and make him a plain soldier. The next day Bobby and I went up the office again and we sit around and they tell us to make sure that we don't go up there with any guns in our pocket as they expect the police to come up there any day. The first guy I ran to was to Buster and I told him Buster I don't like this, they are trying to get us used to come up here without any guns I ain't going to come around here any more. If the old man falls for this line, Buster argued with me and I told him you better talk to that old man and make him understand because these guys are got plenty of connection with the police and I'll bet you that when they come here that they don't come here empty handed who are they kidding Buster I said tell me the truth is the ...

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out these people are smart and they are going to out-smart the old man which you see after all Buster I said we depend on the old man if anything happened to him we are through. So Buster said we will fight. Yes I said we must start from the bottom again and you saw how much money you need to carry on a war. I'm sorry I ever got mixed up in this. I said here I am I know in my heart that is phony and we don't do a thing about it well I'm going to tell him and then at least I know that I done my duty if anything happened. I didn't say anything right away. I waited for my chance as I was going down every day and I did not get much chance to talk to the old man but after about 12 days after we got the order not to go to the office with any guns as they expect the police the old man told me to come to his house. The last time I was at the office I went that night to his house and it was about 9 o'clock when I arrived and as I rang the bell and he said to come in and when I came in the house he was nursing his hids beet and he was bending his head as I walked in and I said to myself, eh one shot and you get rid of a powerful man like him. Well he talked to me while he had his head down and he said Joe you know why you did not get any money from the banquet. I said no and he said that we must get the mattresses again by that he meant that we are going to war again although I thought that I will get a heart attack. Gee I

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said we are only back about four months and he said Joe I can't get along with those two guys - he meant Charlie Lucky and Vito Genovese. He said we must get rid of these guys before we can control anything. I wanted to say who wants to control only thing I wanted was a good living but I dare not say anything. I'll try to remember most of the names.

The first one was Al Capone, Charlie Lucky Luciano, Vito Genovese, Frank Costello, Willie Moore Moretti from Fort Lee, New Jersey, Joseph Dodo Adonis, Vincent Mongon, Ciro Morello, Dutch Schutz. Not Mike Capollo as he was a heel at this time and as far as I'm concerned he is still a heel.

Now to more. Now I went home and before I left he told me to call the office at a quarter to two the next afternoon and he gave me special orders not to tell Bobby Doyle anything. I knew he was able to do such a thing now before I left he had told me that this was his last appearance at the office and I turned and said Mr. Marnazano why don't you let Angelo Crusio go in your place why must you take a chance going to the office you know I never liked that order about us coming down the office without any guns. Gee after all anything happened to you we will all be out in the street. He said he had to make this last appearance. Well I left sadly and I went straight home and I started to think that he did not mention Tom Gagliano, Frank Scalise,

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Don Steve from Newark so I was wondering if these guys were in on it. Well I thought most of the night and I did not come up with anything but fear. So the next day I went 110 Street at Lexington Ave., and I waited until a quarter to two. I made my call at a quarter to two and Charlie Buffalo answer the phone and he told me that I should hold on then he answer and told me that everything was alright now the Gap comes around two o'clock and he tells methat he met two girls from Brooklyn and we shall go and spend the whole day out there as they were very pretty and it didn't take long to make up my mind and we went to Brooklyn and we met the girls in East New York Brooklyn as this was thirty miles from N. Y. C. We decided to stay out in Brooklyn. We got there about four o'clock in the afternoon and we went to their house and then we went to a show and then went to one of these girls' sister house and then we left for N. Y. C. We reach 14 Street at about one o'clock or 1:30 and we went to Charley Jones Restaurant and we order a nice meal but we were there about fifteen minutes when a guy came in and he was looking us over. He left then a second guy came in and he was looking us over, he left and a third guy came and he was looking us over, that was enough for me. I said Gap have you noticed what I noticed. He said yes, let's go.

Now I get close to Charlie Jones as he was no mob guy. I asked him is there

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anything wrong and as he knew guys like Joe the Boss or Charlie Lucky as he was a connection with the Police Department and he always had a crap game going and he was partner with such names as Bill Warnar, Bill Duffy and A. Rothstein, and guys like that. I had a lot of respect for him.

He moved over to me and he whispers to me and he said go home Joe that was all I had to hear I got up and I gave the girls forty dollars and told them to please excuse me as it looked as though that something is wrong.

I know the Gap won't give them any money, to my surprise he handed his girl some money and I said Gap I'm going he said yes you go home and he stayed with Charlie and as I was riding toward Harlem and I was on Lexington Ave. I was riding very slow and thinking very hard I had the news laying on my seat of the car and I just could not figure out what it was all about. I thought of when I called the office that afternoon and I remember Charlie Buffalo said that everything was OK and I just couldn't figure but I reached 110 Street.

Lexington Ave., and I saw about nine fellows on the corner and I heard a whistle and I looked and I did not like the looks of things so I put it in second and I pulled away as I lived on Second Ave., 108 Street. I went home and parked my car on the corner and I woke up my kid brother and I told him to take the car in the garage and the man in the garage asked the kid how is Joe

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is he OK and the kid told me about this. Now the man who owned the garage was the guy that Nickie and Solly fired at on St. Ann Ave., if you remember I mentioned this in the early part of this story. He held no hard feeling as he understood that we got an order and it is not our fault especially when we did not know him at the time. Now this sent me wondering. I'm sitting on an arm chair and I'm still thinking and I did not look in the newspapers yet. Then all of a sudden I hear a rustle of feet come up the stairs and I have a gun in my hand and I asked who is it and they said Buck, Johnnie D and Pete Muggin, his right name is Leno. I asked them if they were along and the funny part of it I was worried and I did not know what I was worried about. So I opened the door and I saw the impossible all three of them had powdermarks on their necks and faces and none of them were hurt. I asked them did they see anyone all afternoon and they said yes and than I said you guys don't know if anything is wrong. They said that they wreat a lost.

I asked them who fired at you and they told me Joe Swed, Micky Shapes, Danny Hogan and some other dog and Eddie Coco was there and I asked was Eddie Coco there all afternoon they said yes that he was asking all day where is Joe. Now I happened to look at the papers and I see the headline Park Ave. murder and I read hey I said now I know what it is all about they killed

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the old man and everybody took a look at the papers and we read how they killed Jimmy Marino up in the barber chair in Forham and they killed one here and one there a few days later they found Sam Monanco in the Passaic River, and now I tell myself no wonder the Gap took me to Brooklyn he must had known something and he kept me out of the neighborhood. Now I realize that they were all in on this. I could tell that's why I wanted to know about Eddie as Eddie is one of the boys that I put in and he remained with Tom Gagliano.

Now somehow Solly came over and got me and he brought me to his sister house in Newark and that night he was acting suspicious and I made believe that I did not notice it but when it came to three o'clock in the morning I took off on him he never knew what hit him when he found out that I took off the reason why I was at a loss was because Bobby Doyle was arrested at the office after the old man got hit and he remained in jail no matter where I looked it look bad so I said to myself that I'm going at the wake at Ave J in Brooklyn and see if I could find someone there. No not a soul except the family. Well what could they tell me so I went to Nickie's house and he was scared to death when he saw me not that he did not like me he was worried about me and he told me that he is supposed to call them if I go there so I

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said that enough for me so I said don't worry Nickie I will leave and I understand so he had tears in his eyes he said don't let anyone know that you were here so I took off. Now I know where I went they were a respectable family and it is not fair to say because until this day they did not know why and where I was only one guy knew as I had called Tommie Brown and he told me to stay where I was as it was safe for me and he did not let anyone know that I was there. Now the next day he called me and told me that Tom Gagaliano wanted to talk to me and as I felt that I did not do anything wrong the next day I went and met them. It was somewhere around 228 Street on the East Side of the Bronx so when I got there they wanted to know if I had anything to do with hijacking truck like piece goods and things in that line so I told them that I swear I did not know anything about such lungs. Then they told me I did not have anything to worry about so I asked them what was it all about and they told me the old man went crazy and he thought that we are going to kill ourselves, all our lives, as he wanted to start another war. I knew they were right but I did not say anything I figure I first find out'What it is really all about and then I will decide what I shall do. Now Bobby come out of jail but I don't see him yet, I see Tommy once more and he tells me that only I could go back with Tom Gagliano, they don't want any part of Bobby Doyle and ...

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[missing page 368]

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the old man was killed, which I did not. Only break I got was being in Brooklyn and when I got to 14 Street, as I wasn't known down there. It was the Gap that saved me all around. I tell you how when those guys that came in and looked us over, when they made their calls they had to say that the Gap was there with another guy but they did not know who the other guy was now being Gap was with Tom Gagliano and being Tom's men were not wanted they gave me the benefit of the doubt. That's why Charlie told me to go home, he knew that I was with Marangano and that is why I was so friendly with him after this happened. He even remarked to me several times during the years that he lived, "Joe I saved your life. " As he was strictly a Charlie Lucky man. Now who would think like I do that the Gap come around that day and took me to Brooklyn. Now they said that the old man was out to get Charlie and Vito at the office if he did I say he would had not told me that everything was all right when I called - he had to have a reason to have me call at a quarter to two, he must had changed his mind or he will had told me to get off the streets. So the ones who got caught sleeping slept forever.

I was just lucky and again I thought of the state of grace that I kept in the New York Catholic Protectory.

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Now we go and meet Vito at the Corish Arms Hotel and we were Bobby, Buck, Pete, Johnnie and myself. He tells us that the reason was simple why he wanted us to be with him. He said he wanted us to get the respect we deserved, meaning that they were in power now. So I asked him why did they shoot at the boys at Lexington Ave. and they waited day and night to get me.

He said that they did that on their own up in Harlem and I said up in the Bronx too and in Jersey too. So he said that whenever a boss dies all his faithful die with him and I said that's different. So Vito went on to explain all the rotten things that the old man did and he would had us killing one another. So I said if you guys appreciate what we did, why didn't you let us know what the old man was doing. He answered and said he could not tell us anything as we were faithful to the old man and they feared that we will tell the old man and then we will be in a lot of trouble. So I said I rather come to your side as you know that we are faithful than being a double crossers. He said you are right and he tells us that we will be assigned to Tony Bender and he will be our Lt. So they drove us or we met them on Thomasson St. and he introduces us to Tony Bender. Right from the start I didn't like him. He was a conceited and a miserable person. He knew right away that he could not tell me any story as he had gotten in, I'll say a week

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when he was made Lt. You know in Joe the Boss's time they only had a boss and an underboss, but no Lr. Mr. Maranzano made the new rule and put Lt. in effect.

Now the old man died and Bobby come out of jail. I told Bobby what the old man had said and who he wanted to get rid of but I told Bobby as a partner of mine not to report it to Vito. Now Bobby tells me that Vito wants me to go to Chicago and tell my story to the rest of the bosses. As you know when a boss get hit to avoid a national war one must present evidence as to why they killed the boss as they must give out of town bosses some explanation as to why it happened and what can be better than to give one of the soldiers who had no Lt. but was assigned to the boss himself. It is an honor to be assigned to a boss and not having to account to anyone else. I'm sorry I must say this as I want the people of America to understand just how the mob rules and why. I called it a second government. In fact the old man was a fan of Julius Caesar. He had a room full of Julius Caesar books and he copies from Julius Caesar the word carpagine, which means Lieutenant. So I told Bobby that when I see Vito I'm going to ask him to spare me the embarrassment of testifying against my own boss, even though he is dead.

So Bobby told me I wouldn't if I were you. I happened to see Vito and I asked

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him if he would do me a favor and see that I don't go to Chicago as I don't feel right telling stores of a boss of mine. You know what its all about so if you need anyone Bobby is enough. Vito tells me don't worry about it you need not go to Chicago and I must say that I was admired for this.

Now I must go ahead of my story. When they killed Albert Anastasia and Jimmy Jerome wanted to testify against his former boss so they told him OK if we need you we will callyou. After he left they called him all kinds of names.

Now I see Bobby and I tell him that I saw Vito and I spoke to him about Chicago and he said I need not go you can go in my place. He seemed to be happy to go as he is going to meet Al Capone and the rest of the mob in Chicago. I must say that I was sorry for ever joining the mob as there are very few men, all dogs, to my opinion. They don't have their own mind. Now Bobby tells me that it was the Jews that came up at the office and they showed phony badges and they said that they were cops and that there was about fifteen guys in the office at the time that they came up. So I asked him how did they go about it and how did you get pinched when everyone else got away. He said they came in and they said that they were policemen and that they wanted to know who they can talk to and the old man said you can talk to me, so they

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were watching us and then we heard a shot and everyone ran out of the office and at the same time the two guys came out and told us to beat it as they ran out. I went into the other room and I got on my knees and I lift his head and I saw that besides the shot they had cut his throat and he was alive and I thought that he had a chance but he was deal and I didn't care if I got pinched as I was disgusted and I figure that even if I did run I won't know where to go, that's how disgusted I was. I asked Bobby tell the truth did you know that he was hijacking these trucks on Charlie Lucky. He asked me what kind of trucks. I said piece goods is all I remember. He said that he didn't know and wanted to know how do I know. I said I'll tell you some other time as right now I want to know are we going to fight. He said what are you crazy. I said are you aware as to what happened to Buck, Pete, and Johnnie? He said No. Then I told him how they waited for me on Lexington and how they shot up Buck and them. He said how come you were not around. I said I was lucky I was in Brooklyn all day. He said with who. I said the Gap and he looked at me. He said looks like everybody was in on this except us. Now after Bobby explained to me everything I forgot about fighting. I left everything to him.

Now as I go ahead with my story. We were with Charlie and Vito ...

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as I had to because Frank Costello opened the town. I asked Charlie if I can get a few machines. Of course Bobby was with me when we went down town on Thomson Street as they had an office in the building where Vito had the junk shop. I was a very confused guy and I really was in a fog. I was with new people and I didnc think I deserve anything as I did not do anything with these people and when I was called in the office and I met Vito and Charlie I felt sort of ashamed. I don't know why Bobby made me go in we were sitting in the front room and the bosses were in the next room and all of a sudden Tony Bender pushed me in the office and Charlie asked what does he want so Tony said he wants some machines and Charlie said is he along and Tony said yes and Charlie said OK - 20 machines. That meant 20 stickers. Now the stickers were the protection of the office of Frank Costello - without these stickers the police will lock up or give a ticket to the storekeeper. They changed the stickers every month. Now Bobby and I put the Gap in partner with us so they come up with an idea they got two number 1 stickers and two number two stickers - in other words we operated 40 machines instead of so. Now I realized why they threw me into the office if I would get caught using double numbers it will be very embarrassing. I would have to face Charlie so I told Bobby no wonder you made me go in the office ...

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don't worry he wont say anything to you it will be bad if he got caught.

So I said I guess you are right, as he was an old timer compared to me.

Well now we were looking for locations and I went and see Frenchy the watchman in the Harlem Market as there never was a machine in the square of the Harlem Market. There were about eight restaurants and bars in the Square. I beg Frenchy to let me put some machines in the market. I told him that I want to get married and all that sort of stuff. Finally he asked me if I was connected with any racket guys. I told him that I wasn't so he said if I find out that you are lying I'll break your neck. So I assured him that I was telling the truth and he made me put the machines in the Square. Those eight machines were taking in a thousand dollars a week. I had about three or four quarter machines and a couple of dime machines and the rest of them were nickle machines. Now I wanted to give Frenchy a 500 dollar gift but he refused - that's the way he was. He knew me when I used to go to the market with my father and he thought that I was a hard working kid. Now everything was going swell and no one notice the numbers

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on the machines as Frank Costello's office had agents going around checking machines in stores and see that they belonged to Frank's office by having Frank's stickers on the machines. If not, they would hijack them.

Now when the first month was up and I had to go and get new stickers up at Frank's office which was somewhere at 116 Street on the west side, they wanted to know how did I ever get into the Harlem Market as they been trying to get in there for years. We had to register our locations and they had to make sure that we did not have more than twenty machines. Of course I register the best locations I had. Now if they caught up with the double number we had we will not claim the location if they called the service number and caught the workman we will say that he was doing it for himself and then we would pull in the other 19 we had on location and then go to the front for the workman as we can always talk for him and say that he did not know any better. That's the chances we had to take. We had to watch the big office's agents as they were what we called spies for the office. Now the office had a way of checking on their agents.

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[missing pages 377 through 381]

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following day as he got a phone call from Tony. He said he did not know what its all about as Tony himself didn't know. All he knew was that Charlie wanted to see me. So we started to think maybe they found out about the double numbers we had on the stickers. The next day I went downtown and I saw Shim, the fellow that wanted to know if what he done in Sing Sing will be held against him on the outside. As I was walking along Thomson Street I ran right into Shim. We said hello to each other and he said that he thought that Charlie wanted to talk to me about him.

So I said Shim you know that there were a lot of guys from downtown in Sing Sing I'll feel my way around but I'll tell you now I would not lie to Charlie Lucky. Shim said he understood. So I walk up the office and sure enough there was Charlie and Vito and he asked me to step in the other office and he asked me if I was making a living with the machines and I said yes and he wanted to know how I feel as he heard that I was sick. I told him that I felt fine and then he told me about Shim. He said that he heard a lot of stories about Shim and he heard that Shim is a good boy but what he heard he said that he was not interested. He said Joe you are one of my boys and I want to hear it from you, what you say goes. I said Charlie, I like Shim but it is a sure thing that I am not going to lie to you.

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Whatever you want to know. So he asked me is it true that this guy will kill you for a punk. I said yes Charlie its true and he said thank you and he said that is all I want to know. So I came down and I met Shim again and I said you see what I mean and he put his head down and he said I know who told Charlie and I left downtown and I went uptown, back to Harlem. I explained everything to Bobby and we forgot about it. About a month after this thing about Shim a fellow by the name of Sam, who had done a lot of time in Sing Sing, comes around and he sees Bobby there and they shake hands and Bobby asked him what was he doing up in Harlem so Sam Simone tells Bobby that he came to speak to Joe. So as he said that it was private I told him to come to my house so he said that as long as he found me the thing can wait until tomorrow morning as I will come to your house. So I gave him my address. He sat down in the restaurant and we talked about Sing Sing. He stayed about an hour and he left and the next morning he came over to the house and now you would see how the world turned. He said that Alexander Venero is home and he sent me to talk to you so I asked how does he feel and he said not too good. Now I ask him what was on his mind and he said that Alex met so many guys in the 17 years that he done in Sing Sing and none he trusted like he trust you. I let him talk ...

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[missing pages 384 through 398]

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never stopped. The horse paid over 200 hundred dollars and my wife and 2 dollars across the board on it. That was the only bet we cashed. She collected over 300 dollars.

Now I run into Vincent Monagano. He was a boss in the old family and took the place of one of the guys that died on Pelham Parkway. When I saw him I tried to avoid him because I knew that he was against my former boss Marnagano. He put his arm around me and he said what's the matter with you don't you want to talk to me. I was really ashamed more than anything else as I used to see him up at the 46 Street office. So I said you know how it is Vince I got horses on my mind. He said hey Joe when you are going to pass up people like me because of the horse its time for you to quit. So I said you right but what can I do and he saw that I was nervous and I wanted to get away. He asked me did I put any bet in yet. I said I did and he said let me see how much you bet. I showed him the ticket and he saw that it was 10 win and 10 place so he showed his ticket and all he bet was two dollars. You see he said all I bet is two dollars and he had his arm around me all this time that we were talking. So I said Vince you can afford to play just two dollars that is all the millionaires bet but us guys that ain't doing too well we try to win our expenses - instead we go in a hole. Yes Joe he ...

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and he said we watch the races together. Then he said you know Joe I got a lot of respect for you if it wasn't for guys like you we won't be where we are and I want you to know that I am an old timer and I appreciate and respect all of you guys that done away with Joe the Boss and guys like Peter Morello. Yes I said I agree with you but look at what happened we done good and now we got to walk with our heads down because our boss went crazy. Yes he said don't you see that's why Vito took you guys with him he wants to make sure you get a fair deal. I said Vinc I got to tell you the truth if I don't hustle I'll starve to death what can I tell you. He said hey Joe anyway this is the way I feel, have you got a car. I said no the couple that came with me went home, the poor guy is a working man and the Gap gave us 27 straight losers. Give me your address and I'll send you a brand new car and you can sent it to this address when you go home as he handed me a card and I don't remember just what he said, he started to tell me anyway Joe if ever you are in trouble in Brooklyn this is what I don't remember whether he said they made a Judge or they were going to make a Judge. He told me that the Judge was Italian and that his name was Arbruzzo. Later on in this story I will tell about Judge Abruzzo.

Now I go to the dog track and the Gap is getting more loses but at

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[missing pages 401 through 402]

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into a crash and he turned upside down and that he was in a hospital some where in North Carolina. I kept the car for about a week as I wanted to have it checked and then I called Vincent and I thanked him and I asked if it will be OK if I send someone over with the car and he said that if I need the car I could use it. I said I had a car and I thanks him again. Now I see Bobby and he tells me that Vito told him that if we want to book the numbers that it will be OK. Now so I said well he laughed and said I already have a good controler and I said we need money. He said he had a guy with money. Fine I said. I met a guy and he wants me to go in the ice business with him and Bobby told me not to so I said why and he said that belongs to Vito and if you build it up they may tell you to stop. So I said as long as it is for Vito then I don't care if I work for nothing after all he just gave up the OK on the numbers. Yes Bobby said the idea is that you will look bad with the guy that you are with. I see I said I didn't know that they got the ice business union. He said they ain't got the ice union, they have the ice business. I said that I did not understand. He said the ice racket is been in existence for a long time. I see the guy I said and I will tell him maybe if we guild it up we may have to give it up. He said that he didn't care as he just wanted to start because he was stopped once before and he wanted the ...

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put in any money and the only thing that I will do is get customers. He daid OK. All I did was when I go in a place, say like a bar, I will ask the bar owner if I could get his trade for the ice service. Well in about six months I got quite a few customers and I rwer got a cent. Now Vito Genovese calls me and he asked me if I was with Russo in the ice business.

So I said didn't Bobby tell you. He said yes and he told you not to do it. I asked why and he said not I must ask you to stop so I said I'll stop do you get anything out of it he said that it was his company so I said I don't mind the little work that I did as long as you get the benefit. When we were in Atlanta together I reminded him one day we were talking and as there was an iceman in the cell boy did he get mad. He said how do you guys remember so far back. I just laughed because I wanted him to know that he stopped me from making a living. He didn't like it as it hit hard and it sounded so rotten it was not even funny. The other ice man just looked.

Now we go into the numbers business and we started small I'll say the first day we had about 400 dollars net, net means that after the 30% is taken out for the controllor he gives his runner 25% or 20% that's his business what he does. We the bank hold him responsible for his runner.

We have all the runners names in the office if one of the runners is missing or his work don't come inwe send for the controller. We went pretty nice

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nice for about three weeks and then we got murdered. We were working in everyone of the partner's house, one week we work in my house, another week we work over Bobby's house and we had a jew boy for a partner and he had a partner, his name was Nick, and the guy that was banking he ran like a thief. Now we don't know what do do so we worked without any money and we were lucky but we looked around and we found another guy to back us up by this time we had about 600 dollars a day. We got notice that Charlie Lucky's father died and that night a bad number came out and the guy did not want to pay he got scared so we made all the hits overlook which means that we made believe we did not see the hits. We told the controller that there was hits and not to worry. we will pay tomorrow and we went to Charlie Lucky's wake, I mean his father. I don't remember where it was but it was either in Long Island or Brooklyn - I know it was pretty far from Harlem. When we got to Charlie's father's wake there was a big crowd and we sat. I'm pretty sure it was in the back garden. Charlie was not in sight but then he came and he walked over to us and he put his hand out to shake hands when Bobby Doyle said to Charlie, hey Charlie I want you to meet Joe and he had no chance to finish when Charlie blew up, what do you mean by trying to introduce me to one of my own boys. Bobby's face got ...

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- 406 -

other words Bobby was trying to impress me. Too bad Charlie had to go to jail, eh, Bobby. Now Charlie walks away and Bobby is talking in the other room and Charlie is comning towards me and hesays Joe you look sad what is wrong and I told him that we went broke with the numbers and he called a friend of his which was a friend of mine to and he said to Frank get together with Joe he got some number play and he went broke. So Frank said to me do you need any money and I said yes. He said will five thousand dollars help you. I said yes. Then Frank told me to go and see him tomorrow at 114 Street and Pleasant Ave. So when Bobby came over I told him all about what happened and he was kind of surprised. Well before we left that night Charlie said ot me you going to be all right. So I said thanks, Charlie.

The next day I went and see Frank and he gave me the money. We paid out the hits and in a few days we were broke again and I went and see Frank again and he gave me more money, he gave me four thousand more and he told me not to worry you stay by yourselves for about another week and any money you need I will give it ot you and then we will get together, don't tell Bobby anything because it will look bad if it will get out. I said what will look bad and he said the numbers are going to be fixed and we will be in on it. ...

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to get together with me, he want you to make some money. Frank said its too bad you are with that guy he is a tough man to do business with. I was so much in a daze I could not make out what it was all about. Bobby Doyle is making himself a big guy with me and now I'm seeing that guys like Charlie Lucky ain't got much use for him. I didn't know then but I know now. Well anyway in about a week we got together and the first day we got together he had some more business and Frank had more so we had all together $2,500 business, that means $1,750 cash that day. Now Frank tells me to chart the work which means when I get the first number say it is seven, I go up the office and put on the board all the numbers that lead with a seven. Now in about one hour we will have five. Now the first two numbers are 75 and in one more hour we will get the last number before it comes out I let Frank know which number had the most money on it that particular day we had a number with 25 cents on it. I don't remember the number that day as it is too far back but we were hit for a quarter so we had to pay out one hundred and fifty dollars, deduct one hundred and fifty dollars from one thousand, seven hundred and fifty dollars and we win one thousand, six hundred and fifty dollars. Frank called Willie Moore in Jersey after I gave him the number with the most hits and the least hits. Now the business is ...

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[missing pages 408 through 420]

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- 421 -

we get $16,200. Now one of the guys could not pay. They caught him taking a boat. His name I remember was Webb. He was the guy that got five years in the Kefauver Committee for perjury. Now anyone who could not pay say like Vito and Tony Bender paid for Webb. Then they will take the business and they will book it and make Webb a controller and that's how they will get all the business and that is the way Dutch Schultz worked and that is how he got all the business but he or anyone else could not do it to a member. Webb was an outlaw.

Now Bobby and I ran into Vito Genovese and he sat us down and he told us that we are going to kill Dutch Schultz and he did not want us to look for him only if you come across him. Take your time there is no hurry and the Jews have been told so don't look for any trouble as I said only if you run into him, say like in some joint. Well we never ran into him and he was caught up with in Jersey about 4 months after. Vito told us after he was killed. Vito Genovese and Charlie Lucky and Mike Copollo took over all the numbers business the Dutchman had and they put a guy to run it by the name of Malone - he was an Irish guy. Now you know the real reason why they killed the Dutchman. I forgot to tell you that Ciro Morello was stripped out of his command and thus Dutch Schultz had no more backing of the ...

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[missing page 422]

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- 423 -

were killed in an office. Now I know of another boss that they caught in the Bronx - his name was Murray Marks. His downfall came as a result by parking in a certain garage that Tom Gagaliano owned. He had a flashy car and one of the guys who ran the garage checked on the license plates and found out it was registered to Murray Marks. They did not get him that night as by the time Tom got in touch with Charlie Lucky and told him about the discovery it took about two days. Now he will drive his car in the garage and then take a bus. Now they already had an apartment right near the garage and as Murray parked his car in the garage and then went to the bus stop to wait for the bus one man came out of the apartment which came I'll say from one block away. They rented this apartment as soon as they found out that Murray had parked his car in Tom's garage in order for this man to get close to Murray he had to pretend that he was a cripple and was in disguise and he was walking with a limp because Murray himself had a gun. The gunman had to disguise himself as Murray would had recognized him and he never would had got close to him. After they got Murray, Waxy Gordon made peace with Bugsey Seigle which he was known as Ben the Bug and Myer Lanskie. Ben the Bug later was killed in a California apartment by his own men as he went to California to take care of the

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motion picture union and as I was made to understand that he went crazy and was spending all of the mob money and was giving no one an account of his doings. He was going out with Jean Harlow and Virginia Hill. I must say that I knew Ben the Bug and I think that he was the handsomest man I ever met. He was about 6 feet tall and he had light complexion and a round face. I heard that he took out half of Hollywood. After this trouble Waxy Gordon wound up being a bum and he died in jail. I did not know him but I hear he was a fine guy.

When we get free from the Pearl Street apartment, Bobby Doyle give me a proposition about a horse room in White Plains, New York. I went up there and I met a Jimmy Dolan and a fellow named Doc. Where in the world did I expect to find what I found - they had a horse room and it was one of the classiest horse rooms I ever saw. There were beautiful women, well dressed and very serious and all well to do, young and old.

They will sit at their tables and you could not hear a sound from them, most of them were married and after the room was closed for the day they will go about their business and go home. Well I liked it and I put up all the money. I don't remember how much but enough to carry them in case they need it and Bobby and I got fifty per cent of the room. The ice wasn't much, by the ice I mean the connection Jimmy Dolan had and they had to

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- 425 -

be the police. I did not question them all I asked was, how much was the ice. I really don't remember. After I and Bobby left I did not go or call the horse room as I was busy with the numbers so I used to ask Bobby how was it going and he will say OK - one does not have time to be everywhere.

We made an appointment and we went to White Plains on a Saturday and Jimmy looked downhearted so I asked him if anything was wrong and he said I better talk to Bobby so I asked Bobby what was wrong and he tells me that he was betting horses on the phone all week and he did not know that he lost so much money so I said what is that got to do with me and at the same time Doc had a puss on. Bobby said that he had no money and that he had went broke in the crap game on Lexington Ave., at 103 Street where Fat Butch had his game. Dolan said not only we lost the winning but also the bankroll and the ice is up for the month. So I asked Bobby haven't you got any money at all? He said the only money he had was the pay from the numbers that we had just got being it was on a Saturday. So I asked how much is involved and Jimmy told me I know it was over fifteen hundred, they had won pretty good that week or it would had been more. I said hey Bobby I'll put it up this time but I don't like this kind of business. I like to bet on horses to you know that don't you. He had his head down. So I told Him that he should take a ride to my ...

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[missing page 426]

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- 427 -

late I took it and I put it in my car and as I pulled up 114 Street Pleasant Ave., and as it was drizzling and I ran at the drop and I had my head down I ran right into the police - they were the commissioner's confidental squad - and you cannot do any business with them. So I was arrested and when my case came up my record did not show up in court. I don't know how they did it but I got a suspended sentence. Before I went to court I had went and see Steve Francis from the 181 Club at 11 Street and First Ave., and he took care of everything. The name of the police boss was Carberry.

Now while we are busy here and there and Bobby and I used to go on Broadway every night we ran into Charlie Lucky and he again told me if I am not happy down there with Tony Bender, I should let him know so I told him that I will let him know. He must had known something or maybe Tom Gagilano might have been telling Charlie, you remember I used to be with Tom Gagiliano when I started, and you remember how close I was with Tom. I wanted to tell Charlie but I was worried that Vito and Tony might find out I wanted to get to know Charlie more before I would tell him. I sure hope that I would had told him now I find out that they made a council of six, meaning they made a new board. It was to protect the soldier, in ...

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of his soldiers killed just because he did not like him. It meant that if a soldier did anything wrong he will get a trial and be judged by seven men. I don't remember who the seventh man will be cause it had to be 7 in case there will be a three and three tie then the seventh man will decide the decision. Everyone was glad to hear about the council. They knew soldiers were being killed for nothing through the years. Near the end of this story I will explain everything in detail how the old and the new operate. I'll put it all in rotation.

Now they kill an Irish guy in Brooklyn. His name was Vinnie Higgens. He was the king of the bootlegged and they took over his business and Tony Bender used to sit in his office and take orders all day long from all the hot spots in the Village. He sat there like a king you would think that he killed everyone on earth and he took over everything. The only time I agree with Vito is when in Atlanta he once told me that he, Vito, made Tony Bender a tough guy. For that Vito I give you right.

Now some kid comes and see me and he tells me that he can make a lot of money by lending out fifty and hundred dollars so I tell him no good and he comes around with his brother and I knew his brother from being in Sing Sing Prison with him. He was the guy that was in the dormatory bath- ...

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[missing pages 429 through 442]

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- 443 -

guards or anyone else as they all loved him. As I understand Charlie did not want any part of such a thing. I must say that I felt bad. He was the only one who made an attempt to take care of me. I must tell the truth I said to myself it had to be Charlie why couldn't it happened to someone else anyone, I did not care who. Every time I get someone who is interested in me I lost him, who could blame me, I felt really bad. Well he goes to trial and he gets found guilty and he gets 30 to 60 years. At least that's what I think he got. Well after ten years Governor Dewey pardons him and sends him to Italy and while he was in Italy he was not there too long when he changes a rule, he sent word to the U. S. that he does not want to recognize the members in Italy and he does not want them recognized in the United States, in other words he does not want anything to do with the Italians in Italy and his reason was they are troublers and besides they work two ways, meaning they work with the police and the underworld. He was still boss all the time he was away. After he went away Willie Moore in Fort Lee, New Jersey, was acting boss for a while then they elected Frank Costello to act as boss but only acting boss until Charlie sent word in the early fifties that he had resigned and that made Frank Costello automatically Boss.

I remember it was at one of our daily Christman gatherings when ...

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- 444 -

later on. Now with Charlie in trouble and in jail I was in trouble with Tony Bender and Bobby Doyle. I thought that it was only Tony Bender and Bobby Doyle but it was also Vito Genovese as one of the boys in Harlem from 116 Street happened to meet Vito on Broadway in some joint and he told Vito Genovese that Bobby Doyle is giving Joe Cago a hard time and Vito Genovese answered this guy and told him to mind his own business. When the guy told me about it I hardly used to go downtown. I could tell you who this fellow was that tried to talk to Vito but it will not be fair as he is still alive and I will put the fellow in trouble. Altough this fellow won't care but greed Vito is still the boss unless we keep him in jail. God forbid if he gets out on the street there will be more blood shed. Now I'll go back to the numbers business with my friend Bobby Doyle. Now I know all this and I make believe I don't know anything, I figure as long as he, Bobby, wants to act the way he does, I remember that he caused the death of three former partners. I used to ask him about his former partner and he will tell me all about it and I will listen to him and make him think that I will admire him. What fools these power crazy guys are, it ain't not even funny. He is jealous of everything I do. I did not want to do anything wrong as I knew they were dying for me to do something wrong. I was starting to hang out with kids and now that I ...

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[missing page 445]

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- 446 -

paprt as working with the underworld and I'm going to tell you why I accuse them and I'm going ahead of my story being I was talking about my wife. I figured I just as well tell it now. Bobby Doyle and Tony Bender, right name Anthony Strolla, were trying to kill me legally by that I mean so they will have a case for the council. Somehow they spread a rumor to my in-laws that I killed my father-in-law but they knew that I did not.

The idea of thos propaganda was to get me away from my in-laws. I knew this all the time but I could not tell my wife or the in-laws how did I know. Well is was obvious I was talking to Tony Bender once and he was telling me why don't I get away from that family, meaning my in-laws, so I asked him why and he tells me that if he told me why my hair will come off so I told him that I loved my wife and if I lose her I do not care to live anymore and he said is that the way you feel. I said yes. Good thing to know he said. Then I said you know Tony I know no fear when it comes for people to put their business into my personal affair. I said to Tony you know Tony my wife gets a lot of phone calls did you ever hear of anything like it, I said Well he said you go around with girls and I said don't you go around with girls, he said yes and then I asked does your wife get any phone calls? He said no and then I just looked at him. Now

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You see by me having a family, meaning my wife and her family, I will have someone who will be looking for me but if I didn't have anyone they could bury me without consulting the council. In other words, they will do it on their own. Ain't I right Bobby, I can't ask Tony as he is dead and no lost sleep on my part.

Now I will go on with my story and I will tell you later on as to who ordered Tony Bender's death and where is he. Now you see why I accuse this Paper for working with the underworld. Somehow the Gap made me meet a nice guy and his name was Johnnie Roberts. At this time they owned a night club on Broadway somewhere in the Fifties, called the Seven Eleven Club. I will be one day with the Gap and the next day God knows whom I'll be with but it was one guy or another. Johnnie Roberts is one of the sweetest guys I ever met. He used to hang out down at the Villege and he was partner with Tony Bender and he had a couple of hot spots. He owned a place called the Villege Inn and he had a couple of clubs one or two on 52nd Street on the West Side, they were located between Sixth and Seventh Ave. on the same block where Leon and Eddie's and he had a big still going for him - it was down at the Washington Market. I don't know where as you don't dare ask anyone where is he got his still. Now I

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- 448 -

meet a couple of kids from the Bronx and they are very serious kids and they are about 22 years old. One guy's name Mike and the other is Paul and they ask me if I know anyone who is got a still as they would like to have the output. By the output I mean they want to buy all the alcohol that Johnnie makes and bootleggers like to give it to one man. I told them that I will let them know. So I speak to Johnnie and he tells me he is got someone so I tell him, meaning Mike, that they have someone and if anything turns up they would have me in mind. So Mike asked me if it was Johnnie Roberts that I spoke to. I asked hom how did they know and they said that they are in alcohol business and word gets around as who is operating stills. I see I said. Bobby Doyle finds out that I asked Johnnie for the output and he comes and he tells me that he can get the output so I asked how. He said that he can talk to Tony Bender and Tony will tell Johnnie to give it to us. Now you the reader would see that I can't get anything down there unless Bobby Doyle gets a piece of anything that I can make any money. I accept Bobby's offer and we get the output. When I see Johnnie in the Villege Inn and now I'm going down there a couple of times a week and Johnnie tells me I could have the output and he said Joe I'm sorry I did not give it to you the first time but he has to take orders from

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- 449 -

Bobby. I didn't say anything to Johnnie but I laughed to myself. I became a tough guy and got into the mob so that Bobby Doyle can shake me down. Well I make believe that I do not notice it. Now he is bagging to these two boys from the Bronx and being we stop on Tremont Ave. every day before we do downtown, as we are still in the numbers business, and Mike and Paul started to come on Tremont Ave. whenever we will be there they would call and then come over and pay us for the alcohol and Bobby will take the money and he would bring it to Johnnie. We were earning about five hundred a week as long as it would last. The numbers were holding their own and things will go that way. Every day I was taking care of the numbers and when I was through I will take care of my shylocking business. I didn't not have much but something here and something there is the way to do - that's what I thought.

Now I'm going to tell you how I worked the shylocking business.

I don't care whether anyone believes me or not but when someone came for a loan I will ask how much do you want and he will say five hundred dollars and then I would ask him how much could you afford to pay he will tell me how much do you want. I will say it ain't what I want, I don't want to hurt you, make it easy for yourself and he would say what do you usually

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- 450 -

get I would say look I want you to pay what you can afford to day it is costing you a hundred dollars and at the end of the week I don't want you to say I can't pay here is ten dollars and ship me this week. Oh I see the guy will say. Gee can you make it 35 dollars a week. I will way it won't hurt you, 35 dollars a week and he will say I can pay it wasy. Now I never had any trouble and if the guy could not pay and I will pass him by for a couple of weeks. I never charged him extra and I never lost a dime and no one had to run on my account. Now you have heard all kinds of stories about shylocking but I made it a business out of it. The proof is that in all the years that I shylocked I never got in trouble with the law.

After all it was not the only thing that I was doing it was side money and besides if anyone thinks otherwise they can always check with the police as the police every now and then they will tell me hey Joe everyone talks good about you. They say you are the best shylocking guy around in the long run. I was in the shylocking business and the rough ones had to stop after all once the police get a complaint they must act or the D.A. will act. I was in business for a long long time, not steady but through the years and if I needed money I will go to another shylock and borrow any amount I wanted. I borrowed from a guy 116 Street his name was Paul and

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he will charge me 10% and I will charge 20% and I had to make good the loss. I am telling you the truth now if anyone don't believe me than you can check in New York City. I have no reason to lie I am telling you my life story and I must tell you the truth or I will look bad and I ain't aiming to look bad in the shylocking business if I could not back up what I'm telling you I son'e say it at all. After all I ain't the dumbest guy in the world. Thank you people as you have been swell to me as I received a couple of hundred fan mail.

Now I hear that Vito went to Italy and I find out that he went on the lam in the Abe Relas case and they lock up some guys which I did not know and still don't know the reason why I know is because Johnnie Roberts had a gone on 90 Elizabeth Street and I used to go there since Bobby and I had to bring money to Johnnie Roberts from the alcohol and everytime I went there I will leave word in Harlem where I was going. I didn't even know myself that I had a following and at least a half dozen guys will come down to the game when they heard that I was going to the game. I did not shoot crap but I will hang around until Johnnie came around sometimes. Bobby will stay and sometimes he would leave. Now this particular night I was there alone by that I mean there was no boss at the game around only the ...

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[missing pages 452 through 477]

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- 478 -

a man and then take his wife, men who would only think about money, men who live on the poor soldiers while you sit back and have plenty of time while the soldier is too busy stepping on every bodies toes no matter how wrong he is so long as you are behind him the book of rights is thrown in the river. As long as you have a piece of whatever it may be.

And they don't know that you want men that did not earn their buttons. Let me talk the way they talk so that I will feel at home. They don't know that you put aside good men because they won't go out and hustle for you because they feel they done their share. They don't know that you look for young blood the way you told me in Atlanta. You remember when you said what were you doing with Champ Segal he is old and what can you get out of him and Ralph Wanger was there when you said it. I'll tell you plenty about Ralph at the end of this book. We see what kind of a good judgment you have about men what do you know about men. All you know is money. Well Vito when you spoke that way you forgot that you yourself is an old man and I'm old but when someone calls you an old man you get mad. Why Vito? Tell me why. They don't know that after a soldier gets old as you say you put him on the side if he got money he is alright, if he ain't then he is out of luck. They don't know that you don't sleep at ...

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you made Tony Bender and how Tony Bender used to serve you like you made Dominick the Sailor Lt. What happened Vito you took him out and you put Patty Rye, Tommy Rye's brother, in place of Dom the Sailor. Did Dom the Sailor earn it? Did Patty Rye earn it? Did Tommy Rye earn it? Tell us about it. Tell us how they earned it. We want to listen. Tell us you ought to know you know everything, don't you tell us how you have men killed and they say that they were rats because you got to say that they are rats because of the council. You don't want a bad name do you? Of course not. Tell us who did Steve Francis rat on the partner you had at the 181 Club. Telus. You don't want to say the truth you don't want to say that you blame him for your wife Ann's doings.

Your wife Ann was a good woman Vito you are too much of a nagger you know what I mean. Tell the Chin how you were mad because he missed Frank Costello and then how happy you were when you made up with Frank Costello because he knows people. I can tell you now you did not need to shoot Frank to become boss - all you had to do was call Frank and tell him that you want to be boss he would had gave it to you. I'm surprised at you. I really am. You make so much noise.

Now I'll tell the readers how you sent Tony Wayo crazy. You put him on the side although you knew he was a good man. You put him

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- 480 -

on the side for fear he may go out of hand and he used to sit in the Thomason Street office and you let him meet all the new boys but you never made him a member. How come Vito: You were afraid he might get some power. Vito do I know Tony Wago? Of course not, your friend Bobby Doyle told me all about him. Now you see I never told you anything about what Bobby Doyle told me about your mob that I joined. He told me all about you enough to run and then he will come and tell you everything that I will say and he will add plenty. You see how smart you are you didn't care how anyone feels you are the power but I hope to take care of your power and throw it in the river and I'm going to try my best to break up that mob of yours and let the Americanized boys alone. Now I want to warn Anna that was Vito's wife and as she stood up for me when I married and I find her a wonderful person - I want her to know that Vito is having her tailed so be careful.

Anna he loves you but he ain't got the guts to come and let you know how he feels. He is worried as to what the mob might think. He must keep his pride. He asked me in Atlanta if I ever heard anything about his wife. I told him I did not. He was happy to hear it. Anna and he was crying. Anna what did he do to you? I remember when you told me that night when we went out the four of us that if Vito tells you that it is

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- 481 -

raining and you knew the sun is out you will believe him. You loved him so much what happened Anna, did he kill your love the way he killed mine. In the end of this story I will tell you what he did to me and how he killed my love for him. I'll give you a hint now then I will tell you the rest in the end of this story. I'll only tell you that he listened to two rats one had his name, he was Vito Agueci and the other was Ralph Wagner. I will tell you all about them and let me tell you another thing, you remember we talked how smart he was well, Anna, he ain't smart any more I lived with him for a couple of months. I ought to know. Now I'll go on with my story.

We were going to the race track every day and we will meet in the Hollywood Restaurant. They had a fine show and we got to know all of the girls. I never saw eight girls so evenly matched all the same size and all about 5 feet three or four and all pretty than dolls. One of the used to play Sadie Thompson and she used to do it with Billy Vine. He was a wonderful comedian. I don't see or hear about him anymore and I don't hear about Bert Froman any more either. My friend Gene had a girl and I had met one girl but she did not come from the Hollywood, she came from the 19 hole down in the Villege and Johnnie and Tony also owned this ...

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[missing pages 482 through 583]

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- 584 -

they had so many burglaries that they started to put the stamps in the bank at night and put them back in the offices in the day just as though it was cash.

Now the OPA men were the connection and they were making a lot of money some deals that they made amounted to a couple of thousand dollars. Now there was stamps that were supposed to be burned. They were the stamps that the gas stations turned in. Now wherever it was that they burned then I know it was in Jersey some where, guys were going there to get a job so that they could steal the stamp and make money. Those stamps were what we call washout. Even though there was the car number on every stamp it did not make any difference. Some of those guys got rich going and working where they burn the stamps. I don't know what they called the place but all I know they were very little burned, the stamps kept going back and forth. When I learned all about the business I found out that one bad buy can't break you, first of all if the price was high and they ran high, for instance, a guy will tell you that all he had was one hundred thousand gallons of gas ration stamps and the market is about 22 cents and the same guy who sells you the stamps calls another guy or maybe a couple of guys it will hurt you once you make a deal, a deal is a deal one cannot do anything about it. They will tell you it is your hard luck we got stuck with them. So I got together with the main guys in the

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- 585 -

business and I will call them before I made any buys. My phone bill during the stamp days sometimes came to a hundred dollars There was only three guys in New York that will lay out any amount of cash but the three of them got together and they made the market. How will they make the market it was easy. They did not sell to everybody, if someone went to them and wanted to make a buy they will tell him we ain't got anything but I think that Joe is got something. Then the guy will call me and put me wise and he will tell me what to charge when he come, if he came, I will tell him that I only have a small amount if you want them all I'll give them to you. If he took them and I was really short then I will call the guy that called me. I know a lot of guys that got ruined especially a certain stamp called B2. The boys in Jersey called everyone but the wise guys they called all in between guys and the people in Jersey told each and every one of them were getting a break when one of these guys called me once and he told me that he was the only one who had them I told him that I will call him in about fifteen minutes. When I made my call I called the guy back and I told him, Max be careful they are all over the city. He told me that it could not be. Max I said you know that I haven't any stamps so why should I kid you get out and start selling because there are millions of B2 all over the city. Later I found out the people in Jersey had six million gallons. The way

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I understand they came direct from the OPA office. In one day the market went down from 7 cents to two cents. Go and get even if a guy bought say 100 thousand he loses 5 thousand dollars. One goes in business to make money not invest and then close almost everything. What if a guy bought a couple of hundred thousand, see what I mean. Now this was not the only stamp around there was shoe, sugar, meat, oil, canned goods and maybe a few more kind of stamps and there was also counterfeit stamps of all kind. I never put on hand any other stamp but gas stamps. Everything else was dangerous and I never fool around with any counterfeit stamps. I'm going to tell you about my garage man. He kept asking me for meat stamps. I told him that I'll see what I can do. I find out that there was nothing around only counterfeit. He said don't bother. I said don't worry I won't bother I wasn't going to be crazy. I'm doing fine who needs counterfeit. Well he finally got some meat stamps, at least that is what he told me. I asked him if they were good stamps. He said that they were but although it did not sound right to me but I forgot about it. Not long after he told me I read in the papers that he got arrested for the counterfeit meat stamps. That night when I pulled in the garage I saw his brother and as he had to drive me home I asked him what happened. Herman and he told me Gee Joe you are a good fellow so I took the hint and I said to him

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did Herman tell you that I told him that the meat stamps are all counterfeit. Yes he said he told me and I told him, why don't you listen to Joe he knows what he is doing but Herman told his brother that the guy who gave him the stamps did not know that they were counterfeit. Well that's why one has to know what he is doing they ain't going to sell me counterfeit meat stamps and tell that they good when they not. That is the catch in this business. One must not fool and mislead another for the sake of a few dollars. You know what I mean.

He just shook his head. The next night I pulled in the garage Herman was there he said Hello to me and he also told me you are a good fellow Joe. Well Herman I said I don't want to rub it in but I told you that there were no good meat stamps around and when you told me that they were good well what can I say you see Herman if it was I who got arrested for counterfeit there won't be any bail on me. You see what I mean you got a thousand dollar bail. What made you so desperate that you had to get those meat stamps. He said the bum parks in this garage and he use to bother me every night. Well we stopped in front of my building and we talked for a while then he said so long Joe I may never see you again. He said that he disgraced the family and that he is going away and sell his share in the garage. That afternoon when I called for the car one of the help delivered the car to me and he told me did you hear about Herman

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[missing pages 588 through 599]

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