American Mafia History Website

American Mafia Website - Stefan Cicale Testimony 2

Note: On March 29, 2005, Robert McKelvey was lured to the historic Kreischer Mansion on Staten Island. McKelvey, an associate of the Bonanno Crime Family crew led by soldier Gino Galestro, was in trouble with superiors over financial matters and bragging about the crew's crimes. At the mansion, McKelvey was stabbed and drowned in a garden pool. Bonanno associates disposed of his remains in the mansion's furnace. A Brooklyn federal grand jury in October 2006 indicted Galestro and associates Joseph "Joe Black" Young, Stefan Cicale and Jose Garcia. Galestro, 39, pleaded guilty Aug. 1, 2008, to ordering the murder. (He was sentenced to 20 years in 2009.) Galestro, Cicale, Garcia and Maggio cooperated in a federal case against Joseph Young. Cicale's Oct. 14, 2008, testimony is shown below. Young was convicted Oct. 27 of racketeering and murder. He was sentenced to life in prison. This edited and formatted version of Cicale's testimony is the property of The American Mafia website. Edited by Justin Dugard. Formatted for the web by Thomas Hunt.

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Stefan Cicale Testimony - Page 2

United States of America v.
Joseph Young, defendant

District Judge Allyne R. Ross

United States District Court
Eastern District of New York
Brooklyn, N.Y.
October 14, 2008

1 2 3

Joseph "Joe Black" Young

Q. What year did you first meet Joseph Young?

A. 2004.

Q. Who introduced you to him?

A. Sonny.

Joseph Young

Joseph Young

Q. Did Joseph Young address Mike Maggio by any particular name?

A. Called him "Chief".

Q. Did you talk to Joe Young about what he had done before he started working at Fresca's?

A. Yes.

Q. What did the defendant tell you?

A. He said he did some type of work for fire insurance jobs or something with the Fire Department. Something like that.

Q. Any other jobs?

A. He did something with computer websites.

Q. Did he talk about his training?

A. Yes.

Q. What did he say?

A. He said that he was in the Marines.

Q. Had you been to his house?

A. Yes.

Q. One house or more than one house?

A. More than one.

Q. More than one?

A. Yes.

Q. What was the --- where was the first house?

A. It was on Arthur Kill Road.

Q. What was at Arthur Kill Road?

A. That was the Kreischer Mansion.

Q. The same place where Robert McKelvey was killed?

A. Yes.

Q. Mr. Cicale, I am showing you what's been marked today as Government's Exhibit 38. Do you recognize that?

A. Yes.

Q. What is it?

A. It's the Kreischer Mansion.

Q. What's depicted in Government's Exhibit 38?

A. That's where Joe lived.

Q. Where is it located?

A. On Arthur Kill Road.

Q. Staten Island?

A. Yes.

Q. This the front of the house?

A. Yes.

Q. There are the front stairs leading up to it?

A. Yes.

Q. Did the defendant tell you what he did at the house?

A. Yes.

Q. What did he do?

A. He was a caretaker.

Q. At some point, did he move out of the mansion?

A. Yes.

Q. Where did he move to?

A. To a house on Amboy Road.

Q. Had you been to the second house as well?

A. Yes.

Q. When he moved to the house on Amboy Road, was that before or after the murder we discussed?

A. It was after.

Q. Describe how the Amboy Road house looked.

A. It was set in off the street. It was a long driveway. When you were pulling up to the house and it was like a little shed straight in front of the driveway and the house was on the right.

...

Q. Mr. Cicale, did you ever provide money for Joseph Young for bail?

A. Yes.

Q. What happened?

A. He was arrested in New Jersey for something. Something to do with traffic violations.

Q. So, who came to you?

A. So, Sonny had come to me on one of my jobs that I was doing and he asked me for money to bail him out.

Q. Did you provide him money?

A. Yes.

Q. How much?

A. $1,200.

Q. Approximately when did this happen?

A. It was sometime in '05.

Loan Sharking

Q. Now, you testified that as part of your association with the Bonanno Family, you engaged in criminal activity; correct?

A. Yes.

Q. You talked about loansharking?

A. Yes.

Q. You borrowed loansharking money from Mike Galestro?

A. Yes.

Q. At some point, did you, yourself become a loanshark?

A. Yes.

Q. What did you do?

A. I loaned money to people.

Q. What happens when someone who borrows loansharking money doesn't pay?

A. Depending on how severe, that would be what the repercussions would be.

Q. Did you have a partner in your loansharking business?

A. Yes.

Q. Who was that?

A. Mike Maggio.

Q. Anyone else?

A. Mike Galestro.

Q. Did you and Mike Galestro ever have to use or threaten violence to get money?

A. Yes.

Q. How many occasions?

A. On a few occasions.

Q. Do you remember any in particular?

A. With Mike Galestro?

Q. Correct.

A. A person, Andrew.

Q. What did you do to this Andrew?

A. Well, I was dealing with him at first, collecting the money. And I knew him, I knew him from school. So, I didn't really want to threaten the guy or anything. So, I told him that it would be out of my hands, you know, if he continues not to pay and he's going to have to deal with someone else.

Q. So, was that still a threat?

A. Yes.

Q. And what was the implication of your threat?

A. The implication was that I couldn't be held responsible for what anybody would do to him if he didn't pay.

Q. Now, in additon to money that you loaned out together with Mike Galestro, did you help Mike Maggio collect on his debts?

A. Yes.

Q. Approximately how many times?

A. Several times.

Q. Do you remember specific incidents?

A. Yes.

Q. Please, tell the jury.

A. There was a guy in Brooklyn. Gino and Mike had me follow him around Brooklyn. They wanted to know where he was going.

Q. Did you do that?

A. Yes.

Q. What happened?

A. He saw that I was following him. He got scared and, you know, he almost got into an accident.

Q. Did you ever assault anybody who owed money to Mike Maggio?

A. Yes.

Q. Who was that?

A. Joe Reliable.

Q. The Joe Reliable in Government's Exhibit 8?

A. Yes.

Q. What did you do?

A. Mike ordered me to punch him in the face and I punched him.

Q. Why did Mike want you to punch him in the face?

A. Because he was disrespecting Mike, not calling him back. Mike was trying to get ahold of him, he wasn't answering his phone. He had me call him. He wasn't answering the phone for a long period of time. Mike felt disrespected and so I finally got him on the phone and we met up.

Q. Did you ever go to someone's house to collect money with Mike Maggio?

A. Yes.

Q. What happened?

A. Mike had me get out of the car, ring the bell, and the person wasn't home. So, Mike got out of the car. When I went back in the car, he told the people that, that the person needed to pay, needed to get in touch with Mike or he was going to take the cars out of the driveway. Other things.

Drug Dealing

Q. While you were in Gino Galestro's crew, did you ever engage in drug dealing?

A. Yes.

Q. What kinds of drugs did you deal in?

A. Vicodin pills.

Q. Did you do that together with other people?

A. Yes.

Q. Who?

A. With Mike Galestro and Ronnie Escobar.

Q. What were their roles in drug transactions?

A. I would get the drugs from Mike and give them to Ronnie, and Ronnie would sell them.

Q. Approximately how many times did you do that?

A. A few times.

Q. Did you make money?

A. Yes.

Gambling

Q. While you were in the crew, did you talk about robbing a gambling location?

A. Yes.

Q. What did you talk about and with who?

A. Mike Maggio and Little John. I played cards at someone's house. They didn't like the guy too much so they wanted to rob the card game. So, they talked about it.

Q. Did that happen?

A. No.

Q. Did you ever participate in a gambling business? An illegal gambling business?

A. Yes.

Q. What did you do?

A. I played cards and dealt cards at the place.

MR. CHAN: Showing you again, Government's Exhibit 10.
(The above-referred to exhibit was published to the jury.)

Robert McKelvey

Q. Who is that?

A. Robert McKelvey.

Q. How did you first meet him?

A. He was a mechanic next to Sonny's Auto Body.

Q. Do you remember the name of the shop that was next to Sonny's Auto Body?

A. Dunrite.

Q. At some point, was Dunrite replaced by another shop?

A. Yes.

Q. Which shop?

A. Transaction.

Q. Who worked at or owned Transaction?

A. Mario and Sal.

Q. Did you ever see Mario and Sal with a Gino Galestro?

A. Yes.

Q. Where?

A. I seen him at dinners.

Robert McKelvey

Robert McKelvey

Q. At the time of Robert McKelvey's death, where was he working?

A. He was working as an auto mechanic in New Jersey somewhere.

Q. Before he was killed, do you know if he had any involvement in arson?

A. Yes.

Q. Arson of what?

A. Arson of Nick Lanza's house.

Q. Who was Nick Lanza?

A. He used to be an associate of the crew, but he fell out of favor with Mike and Gino. They wanted him off Staten Island. So, they fire -- threw firebombs at his house.

Q. How did you find out that Robert McKelvey was the one who firebombed Nick Lanza's house?

A. He told me.

Q. Who told you?

A. Bobby told me.

Q. Did Mike Maggio ask you to do anything on the night of the firebombing?

A. Yes.

Q. What did he ask you to do?

A. He asked me to drive by the house and let him know what I saw.

Q. Did you do that?

A. Yes.

Q. Where was the house?

A. It was off of Annadale Road in Staten Island.

Q. What did you see when you got there?

A. The second story, there was a second-story balcony with a sliding door. And that area on the front of the house was black burn-marked going up the front of the house. People on the lawn, police vehicles, police and people from the house standing on the lawn talking to police.

Q. Did you report what you saw to anybody?

A. Yes.

Q. To who?

A. To Mike.

Q. Mike Maggio?

A. Yes.

Q. Did he say anything to you in response?

A. Not at the time, no.

Q. Did he later talk about the arson?

A. Yes.

Q. What did he say?

A. He said that he wanted the guy Nick off of Staten Island. He's not going to put up with no one's BS. And stuff like that.

Q. Did, in fact, Nick Lanza leave Staten Island afterwards?

A. Yes.

Q. Who ordered that to happen?

A. Gino.

Q. After his house was firebombed, did Nick Lanza try to do anything to the crew?

A. Yes.

Q. What happened?

A. He called Little John and threatened Little John because he thought that he did it and said he was going to retaliate the same way. What happened to him was going to happen to Little John's house.

Q. And had Little John done it?

A. I'm not sure.

Q. What was done in response to the threat on Nicky Lanza?

A. We organized in front of Little John's house basically overnight to protect the house.

Q. When you saw "we", who is the we?

A. Me and a couple of guys from the crew.

Q. Who ordered that it happen?

A. Gino.

Q. Were you ever yourself involved in criminal activity for Robert McKelvey?

A. Yes.

Q. How many times?

A. Maybe two times.

Q. Let's talk about the first. What was the first?

A. Robert and a couple of guys they robbed a drug dealer and they had robbed a safe. He helped open the safe.

Q. How did you happen to know about that?

A. Mike told me that, Mike Maggio.

Q. When he told you that, what did he want you to do?

A. He called me up and said grab tools and said they needed help to open the safe, to go over the house.

Q. Did you do that?

A. Yes.

Q. Where did you go?

A. I went to Bobby's house.

Q. Where was his house?

A. It was on Hunter Avenue, Staten Island.

Q. Did he have any pets there?

A. He had a dog.

Q. What did you see when you got to Robert McKelvey's house?

A. Robert -- Bobby was there, and a bunch of other guys were there trying to open the safe.

Q. What did you do?

A. I helped them out.

Q. What was in the safe?

A. $3,000 and some paperwork and stuff.

Q. What was done with the money?

A. They split it up between the guys who helped do the robbery and they gave money to Gino.

Q. After that incident, were you involved in a second incident with Robert McKelvey?

A. Yes.

Q. What did you do?

A. I don't know if it was the same guy or another guy. Sonny had organized some guys that wanted to rob -- I don't know who it was, but another drug dealer. It might have been the same one.

Q. So what did you do?

A. I went with Sonny as a lookout, we were in the car, while Bobby organized a group of guys to go in the house. They tried to go in the house, but then they got spooked and they left.

KcKelvey Has To Go

Q. When you knew Robert McKelvey, what was his personality like?

A. He was abrasive.

Q. How was he abrasive?

A. He was usually loud, drawing attention to himself.

Q. When he drew attention to himself, what would he be talking about?

A. He used to brag a lot.

Q. About?

A. Bragged about the mob and bragged about the things he has done, crimes.

Q. Did he ever talk about his place in the family, the Bonanno family?

A. Yes.

Q. What did he say?

A. He said he was trying to move up the ranks.

Q. Before he was killed, was he having problems with his house?

A. Yes.

Q. What was going on with his house?

A. I'm not sure exactly, but he was trying to get the house out of whose name it was in and get it in his name and refinance it somehow to get some money.

Q. Was anyone in the crew that was helping him deal with this house situation?

A. Yes.

Q. Who was that?

A. Mike Galestro?

Q. Did Mike Galestro work somewhere particularly that would help him?

A. He worked at Staten Island Mortgage.

Q. Did Mike Galestro have a partner there.

A. Yes.

Q. Who was that?

A. Dan Zitosfky.

Q. Showing you Government's Exhibit 21. Who is that?

A. That's Dan.

Q. Was Dan Zitosfky also involved in the house deal?

A. Yes.

Q. Did the house deal go smoothly?

A. No.

Q. What happened?

A. Bobby, he was unhappy about the money that they had given him after the deal was done, and he was complaining to them, pretty angry.

Q. Was there a sit-down over that?

A. Yes.

Q. Where was the sit-down?

A. It was in Dunkin' Donuts in Staten Island.

Q. Who was there?

A. Me, Mike Galestro, Mike Maggio, Dan, and Bobby.

Q. What happened at the sit-down?

A. They gave Bobby money, said that everything was done. That the house was out of his name and put the house I think it was in Dan's name. Bobby was real upset. He said, this wasn't what he was promised and he got real angry in the Dunkin' Donuts. Mike and Dan showed him a lot of paperwork, showed him checks and stuff, showed him paperwork and books, and they left.

Q. After that sit-down, did you have a discussion with Mike Maggio about Robert McKelvey?

A. Yes.

Q. What did you discuss -- what did Mike Maggio say?

A. He said that Bobby had to go.

Q. When he said Bobby had to go, what did you understand that to mean?

A. Meant that they were going to kill Bobby.

Q. Did you ask Mike Maggio why?

A. Yes.

Q. What did he say?

A. He said he had a big mouth.

Q. What did you say?

A. I said -- I took it literally that he had a big mouth, that's just what he was. I said, that's no reason to kill the guy. I said, maybe just beat the guy up or something, straighten him out a little bit. He said like no, Gino said he's got to go, so it's got to get done.

Q. What did you say to that?

A. I told him to keep me out of it.

Q. After the last conversation, did you warn Robert McKelvey?

A. No.

Q. Did you go to the police?

A. No.

Q. How come?

A. I was afraid.

The Murder

Q. Turning your attention now to March 29, 2005. Did you receive a telephone call from Mike Maggio that day?

A. Yes.

Q. What did he ask you to do, if anything?

A. He said to meet him at the Mansion.

Q. Which Mansion?

A. Kreischer.

Q. The one in Government Exhibit 38?

A. Yes.

Q. Did he tell you why?

A. No, just said to meet over there.

Q. At the time of that call, did you think anything of it?

A. No.

Q. Did you go to the Mansion?

A. Yes.

Q. Approximately what time of day?

A. Maybe early afternoon.

Q. Who was there when you got there?

A. It was Mike, Joey Young and Jose.

Q. What did the four of you do there at the Mansion?

A. We were just hanging out, playing some video games upstairs.

Q. When you say upstairs, what was upstairs?

A. Like a little living room type thing, a little bar, TV, couch.

Q. Who lived at the Mansion at that time?

A. Joey Young.

Q. Were the four of you together in the same room the entire time?

A. No.

Q. What happened?

A. Me and Jose were together pretty much most of the time and there were times when Joe and Mike would leave.

Q. Did you know what they were doing when they left?

A. No.

Q. At time point did you overhear Mike Maggio make a phone call?

A. Yes.

Q. What did you hear him say?

A. He was talking to Bobby on the phone and he mentioned my name a few times. I overheard him mention my name, so I approached him. I asked him, why did you mention my name on the phone? He said he was talking to Bobby and that he was trying to get him to come to the Mansion.

Q. What did you think of that call?

A. Well, I was worried because I knew what Mike had said previously and he made some -- he was talking about it a couple of times, so I kind of knew what might happen. So I was worried it might have been me. I told him, hey, if I did anything to you, I didn't mean to do it, it was unintentional, I don't know what you are doing, but, you know, I didn't mean to do it, if I did. He said, no, don't worry about it. He said, get out, I don't want you here. He said take Jose and leave and I will call you when I'm done.

Q. Did you take Jose and leave the Mansion?

A. Yes.

Q. When you left with Jose, what car did you take?

A. We took Jose's car.

Q. What car was that?

A. It was a black Lincoln.

Q. When you left, who stayed behind at the Mansion?

A. Joe and Mike.

Q. What did you believe was going to happen at the Mansion?

A. I believed that they were going to kill Bobby.

Q. They being?

A. Mike and Joe.

Q. When you left the Mansion, where did you and Jose go?

A. We went to Curves.

Q. Approximately how far away was Curves from the Mansion?

A. Maybe a few miles up the road.

Q. On the way there, did you talk with Jose Garcia?

A. Yes.

Q. What did you talk about?

A. Jose was worried, too, and he thought it might have been him. So I told him that it wasn't. I told him it was Bobby.

McKelvey is Dead

Q. How long did you stay at Curves?

A. Maybe an hour.

Q. Then what happened?

A. Then I got a phone call from Mike telling us to come back, that he was finished.

Q. When he said he was finished, what did you understand that to mean?

A. That he did whatever he was planning on doing.

Q. When you got back to the Mansion, approximately what time of day was it?

A. It was maybe sometime early evening.

Q. Was it dark out?

A. Yes.

Q. What was the first thing that you saw when you arrived?

A. I saw Mike standing by this little ornamental pool in the front.

Q. What was he doing?

A. He was looking in the water, in the pool.

Q. What did he say, if anything?

A. He said let's take a walk, he wanted to show us something.

Q. And did you go with him?

A. Yes.

Q. Who went with him?

A. Me, Jose and Mike.

Q. Where was Joey Young at the time?

A. He was downstairs in the Mansion.

Q. Did you go see him there later.

A. Yes.

Q. What was he doing downstairs in the Mansion?

A. He was burning clothing in the furnace.

Q. Before you went downstairs, where did Mike take you outside?

A. He took us to the shed.

Q. What did you see when you got to the shed?

A. I saw Bobby laying on the floor.

Q. Was he alive or was he dead?

A. He was dead.

Q. Was he wearing any clothes?

A. No.

Q. Did you see any wounds on his body?

A. He had a wound on the side.

Q. After that, is that when you went to the basement?

A. Yes.

Q. At some point did the four of you talk about what to do with the body?

A. Yes.

Q. At some point did the defendant, Joseph Young, tell you what had happened at the Mansion that night?

A. Yes.

Q. What did the defendant tell you happened at the Mansion that night?

A. He said that he murdered Bobby.

Q. Did he describe for you in detail how he did this?

A. Yes.

Q. How did he describe to you what he did?

A. He said that Mike lured him in the Mansion and he was hiding in the hallway. When he walked in the door, he jumped out of the hallway and stabbed him with a knife. He grabbed him, Bobby broke free, and they crashed into the door that leads outside. Eventually, Bobby made his way down the stairs and outside. Joe had grabbed him in the bushes by the front and drowned him in the pool right there.

Q. Did the defendant also tell you how Robert McKelvey had come to the Mansion?

A. Yes.

Q. What did he tell you?

A. He said that Mike went to pick him up and Bobby left his car at the spot where they met and he got into Mike's car and Mike brought him to the Mansion.

Q. What was the spot where Bobby had left his car?

A. It was not too far away. It was JoJo's Auto Shop.

Q. Is that on Page Avenue?

A. Yes.

Q. What car did Mike Maggio use to pick up Bobby McKelvey?

A. His Chrysler 300.

Q. What color was it?

A. Black.

Q. When the four of you started talking about what to do with Robert McKelvey's body, what did you discuss?

A. Mike, he was directing us what to do with it, and made some suggestions on what to do with it.

Q. What were the different suggestions being bantered around?

A. You know, he was coming up with whatever idea came to his mind. He said, throw it on the side of the road, or throw it in the water, or cut it and put some of it here and some of it there, or just cut it up and put it in the furnace.

Q. Ultimately, was a final decision made?

A. Yes.

Q. What was that?

A. He decided he wanted to cut up the body and burn it in the furnace.

Q. Who decided?

A. Mike.

Q. At some point did the four of you leave the house?

A. Yes.

Q. Where did you go?

A. We went to Fresca's.

Q. Why?

A. Mike wanted to create an alibi, so he had us go to Fresca's where they had surveillance cameras and they could get us on videotape that we were there, and he could have the owner and people there vouch for us that we were there all night, if they ever need it.

Q. When you say "we", who is we?

A. Me, Joe, Jose, Mike.

Q. How long did you stay there?

A. Maybe a few hours.

Q. Did you go somewhere after Fresca's?

A. Yes.

Q. Where did you go?

A. We went to meet Gino.

Q. Where?

A. It was at a gas station by his house.

Q. Approximately, what time of night was it when you got to the gas station?

A. Maybe 11:00.

Q. What did you see when you arrived there?

A. We saw Gino was in my truck by the gas pump.

Q. What happened?

A. Mike got out and walked over to Gino.

Q. Did you go with him?

A. No.

Q. Where were you?

A. I was sitting in the driver's seat.

Q. Was anyone else in with you?

A. Joe and Jose were in the back seat.

Q. Did you hear what Mike Maggio and Gino Galestro were talking about?

A. No.

Q. What happened after they talked?

A. They waved me to come over.

Q. Did you go?

A. Yes.

Q. What happened when you went over to them?

A. Gino was talking to me.

Q. What did he talk to you about?

A. He was just asking how I was holding up.

Q. What did you understand that to mean?

A. Well, I understood it to mean that after what had just happened, he was trying to feel me out, trying to see how I was holding up under the pressure.

Q. What did you tell him?

A. I told him I was fine.

Q. What did you do next?

A. We went to Home Depot.

Q. Who went to Home Depot?

A. Me, Mike, Jose and Joe.

Q. Why?

A. We needed to buy parts to get rid of the body.

Q. Approximately what time did you get to Home Depot?

A. It was close to 12.

Q. Where was the Home Depot?

A. It was on South Avenue in Staten Island.

Q. Who went inside it?

A. Me and Mike.

Q. What did you do inside?

A. We bought a couple of things.

Q. Like what?

A. We bought some masks, some bags, a couple of saws, some electrical parts, and some drop clothes.

Q. Did you make one purchase or more than one purchase?

A. We made two purchases.

Q. When you were making these purchases, did you do anything to disguise what you were doing at Home Depot?

A. Yes.

Q. What did you do?

A. Mike was having work done on his house, so all of the walls were open and all of the electrical was out. We were wiring up his house, putting up lights and stuff. So the saws we had bought were electrical saws, hand-held ones, so they were used to cut electrical cable. So we bought not only the saws, but we bought some electrical cable and electrical boxes, the connectors to help us get the cables together.

Q. Did you leave Home Depot?

A. Yes.

Q. Where did you go after that?

A. We went to Sonny's Auto Body?

Q. Why?

A. To get any other parts we thought could be helpful.

Q. At some point did you pass by JoJo's Auto Body?

A. Yes.

Q. What happened when you passed by?

A. Saw Bobby's car that he had been driving.

Q. Did anyone say anything about it?

A. Yes.

Q. What?

A. They said -- Mike said that was his car right there.

Q. Meaning whose car?

A. Bobby's car.

Q. Do you remember what kind of car it was?

A. It was a red car.

Q. Before you -- did you go to anyone's house before you returned to the Mansion?

A. Yes.

Q. Whose house?

A. Went to my house and Mike's house to get clothes.

Q. When you went to your house, were your cars there?

A. No.

Disposing of the Remains

Q. Did you go back to the Mansion?

A. Yes.

Q. About what time did you get back to the Mansion?

A. Probably a little after 12.

Q. What did you do when you got there, the first thing?

A. Took the stuff out of the trunk.

Q. Did you go anywhere?

A. Went to the shed.

Q. What was in the shed?

A. Bobby was lying dead on the floor.

Q. You had left the body there while you were driving around?

A. Yes.

Q. What happened when you returned to the shed, the four of you?

A. We discussed what to do with the body.

Q. What was discussed?

A. Mike was going to take it out of the shed, right in front of the shed, and cut it up and put it in bags.

Q. Did anyone say something about that?

A. We told him that it was too risky to do it outside, like that it is going to take a long time, so we might as well bring it into the house.

Q. Did you do that?

A. Yes.

Q. Who did that?

A. Me, Joe and Jose.

Q. What did you do?

A. We took two garbage bags, put one bag over the bottom half and one bag over the top half and we -- there was a shutter in the shed, a long shutter, so we put the shutter on the floor, put the body on top of the shutter, taped it to the shutter, and carried the body into the house.

Q. Who carried the body into the house?

A. Me, Joe Young and Jose.

Q. Where did you carry the body?

A. Into the kitchen.

Q. Describe the kitchen?

A. It was a large kitchen. It wasn't a traditional kitchen, maybe like a service kitchen, just a sink and open tile floor pitched towards the center with a drain, just shelves and a window.

Q. Was it a big kitchen or small kitchen?

A. It was a good size kitchen.

Q. What happened when the body was brought into the kitchen?

A. Joe grabbed a mattress from one of the shelves over there that we had rolled up a mattress and put it on the floor. A piece of sheetrock was laying around. We put the sheetrock over the window in the kitchen and we put the body on top of the mattress.

Q. Who put the sheetrock over the window in the kitchen?

A. Joe.

Q. How was it that he moved the body from the shutter to the mattress?

A. We picked it up and put it on the top of the mattress with the shutter first. Then there was knives in the kitchen, a big knife, so we cut the duct tape with the knife and removed the shutter.

Q. And put the body directly on the mattress?

A. Yes.

Q. Was the body still in the garbage bags?

A. Yes.

Q. Why did you put it on the mattress?

A. Because the possibility of blood.

Q. At that point what did you do with the body?

A. Sonny was instructing us on what to do, so we started to cut the body.

Q. Who is we?

A. Me, Joe and Jose.

Q. All at once or did you take turns?

A. We took turns.

Q. How did it work?

A. Probably two of us would hold the body and one person would cut the body.

Q. Then you would take turns?

A. Yes.

Q. Did the three of you wear any protective gear while you were cutting up the body?

A. Yes.

Q. What?

A. We wore masks and latex gloves.

Q. Do you recall the order in which you cut up the body?

A. Yes.

Q. What order?

A. Sonny had -- I don't think he was still sure on what to do with everything at the time, so he said he wanted to remove all of the identifying features first. So Bobby had a tattoo on his right arm, on his forearm, so he wanted us to cut him at the elbow down to the right arm.

Q. Do you remember did that happen?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember what kind of tattoo it was?

A. I'm not sure.

Q. What did you cut after the arm?

A. I think it was the left hand.

Q. Then?

A. The feet.

Q. Then?

A. Knees.

Q. Then?

A. Stomach, and then the head.

Q. Who was it that was doing the cutting?

A. The three of us.

Q. Who was the three of us?

A. Me, Jose and Joey.

Q. How long did it take to finish cutting up Robert McKelvey's body?

A. All night.

Q. Was there a lot of blood?

A. I didn't see too much blood.

Q. Did it collect somewhere?

A. It was in the mattress.

Q. What was done with the pieces of Robert McKelvey's body?

A. They were double-bagged in black garbage bags and brought downstairs and burned in the furnace.

Q. Where was the furnace located in relationship to the kitchen?

A. The stairs that led downstairs were right off the kitchen a little bit to the right.

Q. Was there anyone who was responsible for the burning of the pieces?

A. After a while -- after most of the cutting was done, Joe had went downstairs and he was pretty much in charge of the furnace.

Q. How was he doing it?

A. He just put things in, burning them, and there was a pipe, a metal pipe that was used to maneuver the parts in the furnace.

Q. Who used that metal pipe?

A. We all did.

Q. What was done with the pipe?

A. The pipe was -- we couldn't cut it, it was too thick. We couldn't get rid of it in the furnace, so Joe was in charge of getting rid of the pipe.

Q. What was the pipe used for with the furnace?

A. It was like a fireplace poker to move around the parts in the furnace.

Q. Why was that necessary?

A. We were trying to burn everything in there, but it was taking a long time, so we had to move the parts around to make sure everything was burning.

Q. How long was that pipe?

A. Maybe three or four feet long.

Q. And what was the smell like as the pieces were being burned in the furnace?

A. It was a terrible smell.

Q. Who was in charge of burning the pieces?

A. Joe was pretty much in charge of the pieces.

Q. How large was the opening of the furnace?

A. Maybe a few feet wide by the same height.

Q. Did it have a door?

A. Yes.

Q. What kind of door?

A. It was a sort of round iron or steel door.

Q. Did it have a special handle?

A. It had like a coil handle.

Q. What was the inside of the furnace like?

A. It went down a few feet down, and went back a little bit, and had like a concrete bottom, had some thin cinder blocks in the inside, on the left and right, that went up the sides.

MR. CHAN: Could I have a moment?
THE COURT: Yes.
(Pause)
MR. CHAN: Your Honor, I think this is a good time to take our lunch break.
THE COURT: Okay, fine. Ladies and gentleman, we'll break for an hour. See you back at 2:00.
(The jury leaves the courtroom for a luncheon recess at 1:00 p.m.)
(The witness leaves the courtroom at this time.)
THE COURT: About how much longer will the direct be of this witness?
MR. CHAN: I think about an hour.
THE COURT: Okay. So we'll resume at two and we'll break and give you some more time. Okay?
MR. SOLOWAY: Yes.
(A luncheon recess is taken at this time.)

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